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Nikon reduces manuals even further
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Dec 18, 2020 12:41:00   #
IDguy Loc: Idaho
 
RS Bandit wrote:
Several years ago I was in a meeting with some very high level corporate managers who said their industries were leaning toward on-line manuals citing the following: Ability to constantly update manuals (not having to wait for "major" changes) thereby providing customers a real-time grasp of their products and services while saving their companies the expense and effort of printing manuals and tracking down and sending updated versions to the owners of their products to assure they had the latest product information. Further, many of the the addresses they had on file were outdated and they also bore the cost of materials being returned to them.
Several years ago I was in a meeting with some ver... (show quote)


Which leads to another good reason for downloadable manuals. Nikon frequently sends out firmware updates which add features to the cameras. They occasionally update the manuals to reflect the new features.

Luddities didn't get updates to their film cameras.

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Dec 18, 2020 12:50:22   #
chasgroh Loc: Buena Park, CA
 
robirdman wrote:
20 or 30 years ago is before companies were seriously engaging in this process. Yes my Apple 2e cost ~$4000, I think, with no hard drive. Computers have gotten cheaper. Lets compare cameras. Nikon D3 $5000. D4 $6000 D6 $6500. 600mm lenses I've had $8000 (2002), $9800 (2014) .......$12,000 (2020) I don't have. The first one had a close limiter, like Canon, then they removed that. I don't see cheaper, but less for more $.

How about cars for example. Now robots are used, much automations, fewer workers, jobs overseas.
(1976 jeep pickup was ~$5000 1986 Toyota pickup ~10,000 1996 Chevy pickup ~$20,000, 2015 Chevy pickup $30,000)4WD Latter is bumpiest ride I've ever had in a vehicle.
20 or 30 years ago is before companies were seriou... (show quote)


...inflation is the main culprit, can you not understand that? I spent the same amount they're charging for the D6 on my D5, the 6k for my D4 was 2012...a $500 markup in 8 years is not only reasonable, it's a deal. You're just baying at the moon (this comment includes your original post on a manual, which is easily stored as a pdf in *all* my devices)...I can see your point about close limiters, tho, but personally, I just keep mine at "Full" most of the time anyhow.

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Dec 18, 2020 12:51:11   #
Carl S
 
This paperless society has gone too far! Next on the list will be toilet paper, and that's when I opt out!

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Dec 18, 2020 13:10:39   #
tomcat
 
IDguy wrote:
iPhone and iPad, where my manuals reside, have batteries. No need for Internet as the pdfs are saved in Books App.

My RV, which is parked next to the house when I'm not galavanting, has a good size generator if needed. Or I have inverters to power off the batteries. One of my autos even has one built-in. And of course all now have usb ports. But our power outages, which are relatively frequent due to weather and fires (fires usually caused by hawks arcing out the wires but snow can upset things), only last a few hours at most. Usually the Internet stays up but isn't accessible because modem power is out. No cell service where I live. If I really feel Internet deprived I can drive the 14 miles to town and use it on my Cell or new iPad...unless the one road is blocked for fire fighting.

Perhaps more importantly my need for the manuals is very infrequent. I've been a Nikon user for over five years and although I get the latest cameras from time to time (Currently Z6 and Z50) the menus and controls don't change much. I also have a little Lumix (GM5) which I use infrequently and thus have to access it's manual more often. I'm going to send it down the road though as the Z50 does its job better.
iPhone and iPad, where my manuals reside, have bat... (show quote)


That's good for you, but the majority of us don't have generators in our backpackers out on the road or on a job site.

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Dec 18, 2020 13:11:05   #
tomcat
 
Carl S wrote:
This paperless society has gone too far! Next on the list will be toilet paper, and that's when I opt out!


I hear that those bidets are the rage now......

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Dec 18, 2020 13:12:38   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Schoee wrote:
We can now buy $40 000000 military helicopters and they don’t come with printed manuals. All electronic. In fact in many businesses the electronic document on the company system is the official one and come with warnings UNCONTROLLED IF PRINTED. Online manuals for cameras, printers etc can be updated but your printed one won’t be.




Many years ago, I worked for a company in Charlotte, NC, owned by a company in Southern California called Continental Graphics. They also owned a division of the same name that printed aircraft manuals for Boeing and others. I'm sure they are defunct, now! Most airliner documentation is now on an iPad or similar tablet in the cockpit, and online in the airplane hangars where planes are serviced. It can be kept fully up-to-date for every single plane, each of which has some unique features and unique service records.

I put all my appliance manuals online in Apple Books on my Mac and iPhone. In fact, any PDF I need to read potentially everywhere goes into Books.

At one point in the 1980s, I subscribed to 27 magazines and industry journals, plus The Charlotte Observer and the Wall Street Journal. These days, all I get are National Geographic and Consumer Reports, both of which have online resources. Everything else I read online.

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Dec 18, 2020 13:42:06   #
Schoee Loc: Europe
 
tomcat wrote:
That's good for you, but the majority of us don't have generators in our backpackers out on the road or on a job site.


How long do you need to be away from electricity. Camera needs batteries. Need to do something with the photos

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Dec 18, 2020 14:04:11   #
rook2c4 Loc: Philadelphia, PA USA
 
traderjohn wrote:
Also, the preference is cell phones over DSLR's.


That's only true if you lump casual photographers and serious photographers together as a group. 30 years ago, the preference was disposable and inexpensive p&s cameras over SLR's. Basically, nothing has changed but the technology.

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Dec 18, 2020 14:04:49   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Schoee wrote:
How long do you need to be away from electricity. Camera needs batteries. Need to do something with the photos


In 2020, we have all sorts of external battery packs and battery powered chargers available. I carry a couple in my car all the time. I also have two dual car chargers for 5-volt USB devices, and a car charger for camera batteries. I carry two spare camera batteries in my bag, too.

As Apple has just demonstrated with their new M1 Systems-On-Chips, that microcircuitry is going to be a lot more efficient in the future. Their new laptops get 18 to 20 hours of battery life in light use, and generate very little heat, compared to their slower Intel counterparts in the same price class that use the same batteries. That translates to roughly double the battery life in real-world use.

And if I read right, we are on the cusp of an era of greatly improved battery technologies with better safety and more energy density. Electric cars are going to need something better than Lithium...

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Dec 18, 2020 14:19:45   #
Schoee Loc: Europe
 
burkphoto wrote:
In 2020, we have all sorts of external battery packs and battery powered chargers available. I carry a couple in my car all the time. I also have two dual car chargers for 5-volt USB devices, and a car charger for camera batteries. I carry two spare camera batteries in my bag, too.

As Apple has just demonstrated with their new M1 Systems-On-Chips, that microcircuitry is going to be a lot more efficient in the future. Their new laptops get 18 to 20 hours of battery life in light use, and generate very little heat, compared to their slower Intel counterparts in the same price class that use the same batteries. That translates to roughly double the battery life in real-world use.

And if I read right, we are on the cusp of an era of greatly improved battery technologies with better safety and more energy density. Electric cars are going to need something better than Lithium...
In 2020, we have all sorts of external battery pac... (show quote)


Exactly, totally agree. Which is why I cannot see a situation where I need a manual that is not available to me electronically.
Someone before mentioned about work in tight spaces, well in many aviation settings it is forbidden to NOT refer to the electronic manual as your memory from the last time you did the job will not have been updated with the latest amendment. So yes the technician has a computer next to him/her so they can read the steps.

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Dec 18, 2020 14:21:31   #
mhampton971 Loc: Oklahoma
 
via the lens wrote:
Why is this a problem? You could probably order a printed one from someone if you want that...they are thick and hard to look through. The online version is so easy to use.


I am a slow learner when it comes to reading stuff. I might have to read something several times or refer back to it several times before it sinks in. When I have a hard copy I can use a highlighter to make it easier for me to find the next time I need it. This wouldn't be a problem but I have downloaded lots of pdf manuals over the years and they have most of them password protected so that you can't use the edit tools to highlight with.


With that in mind I have contacted several companies asking if there is a work around for this issue and most simply say - nope sorry. I can get costly and time consuming to attempt to print all my downloaded manual just so I can use a highlighter. So now you know why I like a hard copy.

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Dec 18, 2020 14:50:34   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Schoee wrote:
Exactly, totally agree. Which is why I cannot see a situation where I need a manual that is not available to me electronically.
Someone before mentioned about work in tight spaces, well in many aviation settings it is forbidden to NOT refer to the electronic manual as your memory from the last time you did the job will not have been updated with the latest amendment. So yes the technician has a computer next to him/her so they can read the steps.


Yeah, the networked tablet has revolutionized the service industry at almost every level. It's even beginning to convince doctors of its power and utility and efficiency... they hated them at first, and now they're hooked. All our records are accessible to them, and us. Most of their resources, including the venerable drug manual, the Physician's Desk Reference, are online. They can consult other doctor experts visually and review their videos and imaging results to learn how to treat patients here.

I just bought groceries from a store where an "online shopper" took my order over the Internet. Then she took a smartphone through the aisles, reading the order (sorted by aisle) loaded up my bags, and rolled the cart to my car. For $5 to avoid breathing virus laden air, I'll pay it! It isn't really faster because their new website is mediocre, but it will get better.

The pandemic has accelerated the use of technology to solve problems like that. Many are learning to be more independent and even more productive by working virtually. My wife is in our home office, doing her marketing services management job just as well as she would do it from her desk at the company office. All her meetings are virtual, and since the company is both here and in Sweden, they have to do a lot of work virtually anyway.

So when someone whines about a lack of a printed manual, I just cringe a little. We have so much more information at our fingertips now than at any point in history, if only we'll just remember to use it.

I just read an article from a newspaper in the early 1950s that basically predicted that we would be using smartphones now. He was laughed at back then, of course, because most people could not see beyond next week. Hell, Steve Jobs was laughed at in 2007 by all the CEOs of cell phone manufacturers. BILLIONS of iDevices later...

Never underestimate the folks in the back room plotting the Next Wave Technology Revolution. They will turn your world upside down before you realize it's happening. Paradigm shifts are real, and rapid.

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Dec 18, 2020 14:51:18   #
DanCSF Loc: SA Bay Area CA
 
What only 500 pages my R6 PDF is 800 pages...and yes I printed it out double sided...LOL

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Dec 18, 2020 14:56:30   #
chrissybabe Loc: New Zealand
 
via the lens wrote:
Why is this a problem? You could probably order a printed one from someone if you want that...they are thick and hard to look through. The online version is so easy to use.

They are thick but not hard to look through. They would be much easier if they increased the page size from the small pages they use now. The manual producers habit of telling you how to do something but to get there you need to refer to 5 other pages spread through the manual and in some cases even require looking at these pages more than once is nothing short of ludicrous. There is much to be learnt about setting up a manual properly and I at least would find that a 150 page manual in A4 (or foolscap) is much easier to use than a 600 page with 4" x 6" pages. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by making a manual smaller other than maybe ease of storage.
I need reading glasses so looking at a manual on a phone is just so stupid I don't bother. Phone or small page copies are nothing but a pain in the rear end. Having to read it with two hands is also a nuisance (one hand to hold the phone and the other to flick through countless pages. If you are looking at a 600 page manual and something you want is on page 300 then you just fold over the first 300 pages and you won't be too far away from where you want to go. And if you need to have 3 sections open because there is info about something on 3 pages then doing it on a phone will very soon become a bit ridiculous. We lose manuals because with two of us looking at the same manual and one of use leaves the manual in the wrong place the other can't find it immediately. But that is us not the manuals fault.

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Dec 18, 2020 15:03:14   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
tomcat wrote:
That's good for you, but the majority of us don't have generators in our backpackers out on the road or on a job site.


You have the most powerful computer and expansive memory device ever created: the human mind.

That Human Mind is also a Learning Machine, yet to be replaced by AI. It can adapt to new situations, like printing just the relevant pages of a PDF if there's an area to review in the field. Or, reading and re-reading the relevant sections. Or, recognizing once you're read one camera manual, they're pretty much all exactly the same for model to model within a brand, with only small unique sections specific to individual models.

And if you have a Sony camera, the manual isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

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