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Effectiveness of Masks
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Aug 20, 2020 09:27:13   #
tgshoe Loc: North Texas
 
Blaster34 wrote:
General Chit-Chat topic------DUH!


General chit chat on a Photography forum - DUH!

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Aug 20, 2020 09:31:15   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
tgshoe wrote:
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if they so choose, it provides minimal protection at best and leads to a false sense of security. As far as masks in general I will give you an example from personal experience. I am required to wear a company provided mask while at work. Inside the very mask they issued it has a label that says many things to include "does not protect against virus or biological contamination". So why would I be forced to wear something that does not protect against the very thing I am being forced to wear it for? N95 and N100 masks may in fact provide some protection against a virus but the virus is not only spread by you coming in contact with an airborne particle from someone else's breathing, it can also be spread by touch. So if the virus has to always be attached to something what happens when the aerosol from the cough/breathing lands on an object? We have been told this can survive for up to 3 days, depending on the material the surface is made from, so do you believe the water droplet is still there in 3 days? Of course not. So what happens when you touch that object with your hand and then touch your eye, mouth. ear, etc? Touch your toothbrush then brush your teeth? This is the false sense of security the mask, when the proper type of mask is used and used correctly, leads too. So why go to all this trouble for something, while seemingly highly contagious, is no more lethal than the flu? As far as supposed "fact check" sights be aware most if not all are there with agendas and are meant to merely counter information from the opposing opinion. Snopes for example is known to lean heavily left. One must examine the "facts" they are giving as well. Merely disputing someones opinion with some else's opinion is not "facts" just a counter opinion. This is all without even discussing the affects of prolonged limiting of oxygen that some masks can have. I use masks frequently in my profession and have never seen an N95 mask without a exhale valve. The valve is there so you can wear the mask for longer periods of time without rebreathing your own carbon dioxide you just exhaled. I also wonder why this would be on a photography forum but figured as long as it was I would give my opinion on the opinions given here.
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if th... (show quote)


Unfortunately you and many others like you have missed the point!! You wear a mask to protect your friends and colleagues. They do the same to protect you, and so this community action reduces the chance of catching covid. Now - is that really so difficult to understand?

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Aug 20, 2020 09:33:22   #
Blaster34 Loc: Florida Treasure Coast
 
tgshoe wrote:
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if they so choose, it provides minimal protection at best and leads to a false sense of security. As far as masks in general I will give you an example from personal experience. I am required to wear a company provided mask while at work. Inside the very mask they issued it has a label that says many things to include "does not protect against virus or biological contamination". So why would I be forced to wear something that does not protect against the very thing I am being forced to wear it for? N95 and N100 masks may in fact provide some protection against a virus but the virus is not only spread by you coming in contact with an airborne particle from someone else's breathing, it can also be spread by touch. So if the virus has to always be attached to something what happens when the aerosol from the cough/breathing lands on an object? We have been told this can survive for up to 3 days, depending on the material the surface is made from, so do you believe the water droplet is still there in 3 days? Of course not. So what happens when you touch that object with your hand and then touch your eye, mouth. ear, etc? Touch your toothbrush then brush your teeth? This is the false sense of security the mask, when the proper type of mask is used and used correctly, leads too. So why go to all this trouble for something, while seemingly highly contagious, is no more lethal than the flu? As far as supposed "fact check" sights be aware most if not all are there with agendas and are meant to merely counter information from the opposing opinion. Snopes for example is known to lean heavily left. One must examine the "facts" they are giving as well. Merely disputing someones opinion with some else's opinion is not "facts" just a counter opinion. This is all without even discussing the affects of prolonged limiting of oxygen that some masks can have. I use masks frequently in my profession and have never seen an N95 mask without a exhale valve. The valve is there so you can wear the mask for longer periods of time without rebreathing your own carbon dioxide you just exhaled. I also wonder why this would be on a photography forum but figured as long as it was I would give my opinion on the opinions given here.
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if th... (show quote)


I was told that taking eliquis (blood thinner for AFIB) would reduce my chances of having a stroke by a mere 5%.....Well, 5% is better than ZERO percent. Wearing a mask is more of a courtesy to others around you especially if you're coughing, expelling sputum particles...No one ever said the mask will be 100% effective but then again if its only 5, 10, 20%, I'll use it.

BTW, its a topic called 'General Chit-Chat'.....maybe you should peruse all the topics and check them out....Cheers

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Aug 20, 2020 09:37:23   #
Xinloi6870
 
1Feathercrest wrote:
Why is this leftist tripe on a photography site?


The original post by whfowle contains factual information; not “leftist tripe,” but apparently it overloaded your narrow mind.

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Aug 20, 2020 09:37:27   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
Wear a mask!


Latest intel from John's Hopkin's curent/ongoing studies indicates that the infectious pathway is in the deep back recesses of our nasal cavity, the same receptors for sense of smell appear to be an entry point....early preventative talk based on these findings says that a mask is effective.....and possibly nose plugs/nasal filters would be highly effective. Wear a mask if you care about yourself or loved ones, it is not difficult. Herd immunity may not be possible without millions of deaths.....

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Aug 20, 2020 09:49:38   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Kmgw9v wrote:
Wear a mask!


Yes, it is that simple. Wear a damn mask. Don’t fret with the details. Just wear a mask. Make your own decision about what kind then wear a damn mask.

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Aug 20, 2020 09:52:05   #
Stephan G
 
tgshoe wrote:
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if they so choose, it provides minimal protection at best and leads to a false sense of security. As far as masks in general I will give you an example from personal experience. I am required to wear a company provided mask while at work. Inside the very mask they issued it has a label that says many things to include "does not protect against virus or biological contamination". So why would I be forced to wear something that does not protect against the very thing I am being forced to wear it for? N95 and N100 masks may in fact provide some protection against a virus but the virus is not only spread by you coming in contact with an airborne particle from someone else's breathing, it can also be spread by touch. So if the virus has to always be attached to something what happens when the aerosol from the cough/breathing lands on an object? We have been told this can survive for up to 3 days, depending on the material the surface is made from, so do you believe the water droplet is still there in 3 days? Of course not. So what happens when you touch that object with your hand and then touch your eye, mouth. ear, etc? Touch your toothbrush then brush your teeth? This is the false sense of security the mask, when the proper type of mask is used and used correctly, leads too. So why go to all this trouble for something, while seemingly highly contagious, is no more lethal than the flu? As far as supposed "fact check" sights be aware most if not all are there with agendas and are meant to merely counter information from the opposing opinion. Snopes for example is known to lean heavily left. One must examine the "facts" they are giving as well. Merely disputing someones opinion with some else's opinion is not "facts" just a counter opinion. This is all without even discussing the affects of prolonged limiting of oxygen that some masks can have. I use masks frequently in my profession and have never seen an N95 mask without a exhale valve. The valve is there so you can wear the mask for longer periods of time without rebreathing your own carbon dioxide you just exhaled. I also wonder why this would be on a photography forum but figured as long as it was I would give my opinion on the opinions given here.
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if th... (show quote)


Let compare apples with apples. Do you want to inhale someone's exhalation, risking getting a virus? Physical activity can be easily demonstrated, just like smoke particles from cigarettes. (Smoke particles can be smaller than 0.22 microns.) Using masks does not make one an expert on filtration processes. And I will not hold a class, either. I will throw out the term, staged filters, so those interested can pursue further information.

The Covid-19 does not distinguish as to what people do. But doing with people does present some considerations.

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Aug 20, 2020 09:57:45   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
1Feathercrest wrote:
Why is this leftist tripe on a photography site?


It’s the chit chat section, as you know well. You are doing the entire community a disservice by continually injecting politics into perfectly reasonable discussions causing them to be moved to the attic and in some cases admin censoring the OP.

PLEASE STOP IT! If you want to have a political discussion, start one in the attic and leave the chit chat section alone. You have done this repeatedly. It’s not your disagreement with the premise that’s a problem (which is fine), it’s the political name calling that doesn’t belong in this section

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Aug 20, 2020 09:59:10   #
Stephan G
 
TriX wrote:
It’s the chit chat section, as you know well. You are doing the entire community a disservice by continually injecting politics into perfectly reasonable discussions causing them to be moved to the attic and in some cases admin censoring the OP.

PLEASE STOP IT! If you want to have a political discussion, start one in the attic and leave the chit chat section alone. You have done this repeatedly. It’s not your disagreement with the premise that’s a problem (which is fine), it’s the political name calling that doesn’t belong in this section
It’s the chit chat section, as you know well. You ... (show quote)



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Aug 20, 2020 10:03:46   #
Harry0 Loc: Gardena, Cal
 
f8lee wrote:
And, is there any truth to the claim that normal exhalation would not contain virions at all; one needs to have a deep wet type of cough in order to force the particles from the lungs to project anything away from the face?


That's just an excuse.
IFF you only have a tight small encysted infection at the bottom- maybe.
Otherwise, you're sick. Maybe more, maybe less. You're sick.
Your blood, sweat and tears. Your nasal cavities. If it's you, it's infected. Infectious.
A good demo was someone breathing out in cold weather. That big cloud? Infectious.

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Aug 20, 2020 10:04:50   #
sippyjug104 Loc: Missouri
 
Before retirement my position was that of Senior Technical Adviser for mechanical system designs with a specialty of highly controlled environments including those of manufacturing Clean Rooms, Surgeries and Protective Environments all of which would not be possible without filtration, flushing and exhausting techniques.

Air filters (including those as masks) are obedient to the Laws of Physics. As the particles pass through the filter, they are caught in this maze in four ways: impaction, sieving, interception and diffusion. The more twisted and random the fibers of the filter the more effective they can be.

One way that the ultra small particles become adhered to the filter media is by a weak static created by the velocity of the air passing over the fiber. This creates a "static attraction" which holds the microscopic particle onto the fiber and "arrests" it. This is the secret to high efficiency filters for there is no practical way to 'sieve' out microscopic particles and still pass air (especially at such low air pressures created by the lungs in the case of masks). Commercial applications of high filtration, such as those required for a Class 100 Clean Room, require large horsepower fans to force the air through the filters.

Hoping to be a helpful note, keep in mind that air takes the path of the least resistance. Any gap, regardless of how small, will create a path for the air to bypass the filter...or mask. A proper fit is as important, and perhaps even more important, than the face mask itself to the wearer. A covered mouth and nose with a mask of most types will help retard fugitive expulsion as a protection for others. Unfortunately, a cough produces a much greater air expulsion so simple single layer cloth masks are far from effective as the particles are propelled through them and as well as any gap or less than perfect fit.

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Aug 20, 2020 10:08:05   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
tgshoe wrote:
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if they so choose, it provides minimal protection at best and leads to a false sense of security. As far as masks in general I will give you an example from personal experience. I am required to wear a company provided mask while at work. Inside the very mask they issued it has a label that says many things to include "does not protect against virus or biological contamination". So why would I be forced to wear something that does not protect against the very thing I am being forced to wear it for? N95 and N100 masks may in fact provide some protection against a virus but the virus is not only spread by you coming in contact with an airborne particle from someone else's breathing, it can also be spread by touch. So if the virus has to always be attached to something what happens when the aerosol from the cough/breathing lands on an object? We have been told this can survive for up to 3 days, depending on the material the surface is made from, so do you believe the water droplet is still there in 3 days? Of course not. So what happens when you touch that object with your hand and then touch your eye, mouth. ear, etc? Touch your toothbrush then brush your teeth? This is the false sense of security the mask, when the proper type of mask is used and used correctly, leads too. So why go to all this trouble for something, while seemingly highly contagious, is no more lethal than the flu? As far as supposed "fact check" sights be aware most if not all are there with agendas and are meant to merely counter information from the opposing opinion. Snopes for example is known to lean heavily left. One must examine the "facts" they are giving as well. Merely disputing someones opinion with some else's opinion is not "facts" just a counter opinion. This is all without even discussing the affects of prolonged limiting of oxygen that some masks can have. I use masks frequently in my profession and have never seen an N95 mask without a exhale valve. The valve is there so you can wear the mask for longer periods of time without rebreathing your own carbon dioxide you just exhaled. I also wonder why this would be on a photography forum but figured as long as it was I would give my opinion on the opinions given here.
While I am not against anyone wearing a mask if th... (show quote)


1) It should be clear that this disclaimer on the mask is to prevent legal action against the maker for liability
2) the current mortality rate is averting 3.3% - at least 20x as deadly as the flus and this is agreed to by every competent high ranking medical professional and organization
3) my 95 masks DO NOT have an exhale valve
4) the majority of transmissions appear to be airborne, but you can help alleviate transmission by contact by cleaning surfaces and hand washing.
5) this is the chit chat section, not the main photography forum

How many times do the same old uninformed opinions, wrong data, outright falsehoods, misinformation and political conspiracy theories have to be debunked before the extremely small minority that doesn’t get IT stops spreading misinformation and becomes part of the solution instead of part of the problem?

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Aug 20, 2020 10:11:51   #
exakta56 Loc: Orford,New Hampshire
 
TriX wrote:
1) It should be clear that this disclaimer on the mask is to prevent legal action against the maker for liability
2) the current mortality rate is averting 3.3% - at least 20x as deadly as the flus and this is agreed to by every competent high ranking medical professional and organization
3) my 95 masks DO NOT have an exhale valve
4) the majority of transmissions appear to be airborne, but you can help alleviate transmission by contact by cleaning surfaces and hand washing.
5) this is the chit chat section, not the main photography forum

How many times do the same old uninformed opinions, wrong data, outright falsehoods, misinformation and political conspiracy theories have to be debunked before the extremely small minority that doesn’t get IT stops spreading misinformation and becomes part of the solution instead of part of the problem?
1) It should be clear that this disclaimer on the ... (show quote)

The old ten per cent will NEVER go away. The ten per cent who never get the word, who never figure it out, who always complain because they are too self-centered or stupid. We are burdened by them and shall always be so.

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Aug 20, 2020 10:37:10   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
whfowle wrote:
Since there are so many opinions concerning the effectiveness of mask wearing, I did some research to see what I could find. The following was condensed from a "fact check" site. It seems to bear some credibility and answers some of my questions as to why a mask that only claims to stop particles of 0.3 microns while it is known that corona virus particles range in size from 0.06-0.14 microns.
The N95 mask effectively prevents viral spread. These masks, when properly fitted, seal closely to the face and filter out 95% of particles 0.3 microns or larger.
COVID 19 virus particle size is 125 nanometers (0.125 microns); the range is 0.06 microns to .14 microns,” the post said. “The N95 mask filters down to 0.3 microns. So, N95 masks block few, if any, virions (virus particles).
The COVID-19 particle is indeed around 0.1 microns in size, but it is always bonded to something larger.
“There is never a naked virus floating in the air or released by people,” said Linsey Marr, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech who specializes in airborne transmission of viruses.
The virus attaches to water droplets or aerosols (i.e. really small droplets) that are generated by breathing, talking, coughing, etc. These consist of water, mucus protein, and other biological material and are all larger than 1 micron.
“Breathing and talking generate particles around 1 micron in size, which will be collected by N95 respirator filters with very high efficiency,” said Lisa Brosseau, a retired professor of environmental and occupational health sciences who spent her career researching respiratory protection.
The COVID-19 virus itself is indeed smaller than the N95 filter size, but the virus always travels attached to larger particles that are consistently snared by the filter. And even if the particles were smaller than the N95 filter size, the erratic motion of particles that size and the electrostatic attraction generated by the mask means they would be consistently caught as well.
So, does the mask prevent you from getting the virus? No, but it does provide some protection of others who exercise social distancing and wear their mask.
Since there are so many opinions concerning the ef... (show quote)


1. The word "since"only refers to time and is not a substitute for "because" or "as".

2. It is nice that you have N95 masks and they filter particles better than many masks. Unfortunately and naturally there not enough for the general public because people do not have factories to make large amounts of stuff that is usually of rather low demand.

3. There appears to be no epidemiological study that demonstrates the effectiveness of masks when used by the general public.

4. In the records there are examples of instances indicating that after mask mandates were made the number of COVID cases rose. I do not conclude that masks cause COVID just that masks were ineffective.

5. There is video showing that particles from e-cigarettes penetrate through many masks and around the sides top and bottom. The vap particles are > 1 micron as they strongly scatter light. You can try this experiment while having some one take a video. If you don't smoke this may be tough on you.

6. Ultimately there are only a few possible outcomes.
a. you will get the disease and recover or die. It appears likely many won't know they fought off the disease.
b. There will be an effective vaccine that arrives before you go mad or the angry mob comes to your house.
c. herd immunity will be achieved and the disease will die out. Sweden and New York may have arrived at this point.

7. wear your mask to keep other folks calm but without the expectation that it is effective.

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Aug 20, 2020 10:40:51   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
fetzler wrote:
1. The word "since"only refers to time and is not a substitute for "because" or "as".

2. It is nice that you have N95 masks and they filter particles better than many masks. Unfortunately and naturally there not enough for the general public because people do not have factories to make large amounts of stuff that is usually of rather low demand.

3. There appears to be no epidemiological study that demonstrates the effectiveness of masks when used by the general public.

4. In the records there are examples of instances indicating that after mask mandates were made the number of COVID cases rose. I do not conclude that masks cause COVID just that masks were ineffective.

5. There is video showing that particles from e-cigarettes penetrate through many masks and around the sides top and bottom. The vap particles are > 1 micron as they strongly scatter light. You can try this experiment while having some one take a video. If you don't smoke this may be tough on you.

6. Ultimately there are only a few possible outcomes.
a. you will get the disease and recover or die. It appears likely many won't know they fought off the disease.
b. There will be an effective vaccine that arrives before you go mad or the angry mob comes to your house.
c. herd immunity will be achieved and the disease will die out. Sweden and New York may have arrived at this point.

7. wear your mask to keep other folks calm but without the expectation that it is effective.
1. The word "since"only refers to time a... (show quote)


Here we go again (sigh). I see you have taken to copying your same responses from many earlier discussions on masks. Please accept my compliments for leaving politics and conspiracy theories out of your responses. I don’t agree, but your arguments are civil and respectful, so we can agree to disagree.



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