Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Mirror Lens
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
Jul 28, 2020 09:37:37   #
User ID
 
Canisdirus wrote:
You: I really doubt that you read that post beyond the first two lines. OTOH if you did read the whole analogy I have no clue what your problem is ... nor should I care to find out.

I guess you are so used to being rude...you no longer see it.


Well I was quite blunt and direct as I often am. No denying that ! But there is no INSULT to Paul there, no matter how you read it. Yes I strongly replied to Paul that his reaction led me to believe he never read the whole post. Maybe you call that an insult. I call it an accusation of failing to read further. You wanna call that insulting ? OK. At least I know know what YOU mean. Perhaps Paul will enter in about it. I’ll await that.

—————————————————

That post with the analogy in it certainly would look like angry trolling if one reads ONLY the opening line. Yet to anyone who reads past the opener it’s clearly just a comparison, an analogy. It posits an inane fictional argument against Canon and Nikon as being the same as inane fictional arguments against mirror lenses. Paul and I happen to AGREE about mirror lenses ! So I don’t see what his problem could possibly be unless he never read past the opener.

So yes I have to really consider that Paul’s reaction can easily mean he never read past the opening two lines. And I cannot see where expressing that constitutes an insult to his person.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 10:31:41   #
Canisdirus
 
As I thought...you do it so often...you don't see it.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 10:43:30   #
newtoyou Loc: Eastport
 
pecohen wrote:
I've been making occasional visits to a nearby bog, both for the exercise and for photography. I wanted a lens with a bit more reach but preferably not too much bulk and not too expensive. With some doubts I decided to take a chance on an inexpensive 500 mm mirror lens. This morning I took it back to the bog to take some sample pictures, some of which I show below. The captions show my recollection of how far away but they are simply guesses, not measurements and not even the better estimates that with some forethought I could have read off of the lens.

The lens has a fixed aperture of f8 and that gives no control over depth of field (and bokea). The narrow depth of field should be apparent in all of the images below. Focus is pretty critical and is manual only.

With a fixed aperture my usual habit of shooting in aperture priority seemed to make no sense so I shot in shutter priority, but I left ISO as automatic so that the camera had a chance to make adjustments for low light; but the lighting was strong enough so that did not come into play. I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd use aperture priority, however. Perhaps that would be a better choice.

As if one experiment were not enough, I decided to try something else today at the same time. In the past I've used a monopod at the bog, thinking a tripod would slow me down too much. Animals just don't stay still long enough to set up a tripod. But I have a tripod that has one removable leg so you can build a monopod out of it. I've never used it for that, but it occurred to me that I could also take advantage of that to construct a bipod with more stability than would be possible with a monopod. It is also more bulky to carry around but I think the extra stability is worth it.
I've been making occasional visits to a nearby bog... (show quote)


This was a very good post.
One exception.
Two jackasses decided it was a good spot to vent their immaturity in public.
Personally, I think they defile any post into which they insert a comment.
Bill

Reply
 
 
Jul 28, 2020 11:41:26   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
Canisdirus wrote:
You: I really doubt that you read that post beyond the first two lines. OTOH if you did read the whole analogy I have no clue what your problem is ... nor should I care to find out.

I guess you are so used to being rude...you no longer see it.


I see User_EGO’s point. If you read past the first two lines he was agreeing with Paul that the cheap mirror lenses we usually see are crap, but there are some well performing high end options too.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 13:33:45   #
Paul Diamond Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
 
User ID wrote:
Please feel sincerely welcome to show us where that occurs. I did go back to look for it myself.

There’s certainly much contention in this thread and in going back over it I notice that Paul and I tend to agree ... no arguments between us.


Information only - I see that you post an average of 7 messages per day, 365 days a year for the last 2 years. - For myself, I don't live here. I'm of an age to retire. But I have a full time job, in spite of the Covid-19 assault on the world.

ON UHH, I ask myself the following - Can I say something constructive, something helpful, something encouraging. If I'm not able to do something positive, I say nothing at all. - Just think about what you can "add" to the information being shared, before you say it.

There will always be someone else who has a bigger, faster, whatever car or computer or camera than what you own. The toys don't make the man or woman. Can you encourage a beginner or mid-level of experience person of ways to improve or get more/better from what they now have to work with? Help someone, don't discourage them because they can't afford a Ferrari, if you own one or 5 or a retired race vehicle. Maybe they don't want the same things or have the same goals in life or their photography.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 19:19:00   #
RWR Loc: La Mesa, CA
 
Paul Diamond wrote:
Wow! Thanks for the info and the link to your "labor of love." I learned much. And I greatly appreciated the effort and time investment you have given to capturing some of the history as well as valuable information. I will use it to look at the serial numbers of my Nikon lenses. Thank you, again.
This range of contributors and the information is part of what I treasure from participating on UHH.
I was in the photo industry - worked retail in independent camera stores and chain stores during HS/college, graduate from RIT (Rochester, NY), Southeast Region Purchasing Mgr. with Eastman Kodak stores (renamed Treck Photographic), the Product Manager with Charles Beseler (making darkroom hardware and importing chemistry from Germany for 'Color by Beseler' products), the Omega Division COO of Berkey Photo at 26, Rollei USA Marketing Mgr., Osawa, Hindaphoto, and a few more. Left in 1985 for the computer hardware/software solutions business after the experience of computerizing several of my photo manufacturing/distribution companies. (Info just for perspective)
Wow! Thanks for the info and the link to your &quo... (show quote)

Your career is more varied than mine. I packed up my Exaktas and left the farm at 18 - been back for more funerals than visits since. Where ever I went I photographed anything and everything. A certain company was foolish enough to hire me - for 45 years I hoodwinked them into thinking I was worth what they paid me, and I now receive a decent pension.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 19:40:50   #
User ID
 
RWR wrote:
Your career is more varied than mine. I packed up my Exaktas and left the farm at 18 - been back for more funerals than visits since. Where ever I went I photographed anything and everything. A certain company was foolish enough to hire me - for 45 years I hoodwinked them into thinking I was worth what they paid me, and I now receive a decent pension.


Similar story here. As Woody Allen said “Half of success is just showing up.”

Acoarst the other half is the challenge !

Reply
 
 
Jul 28, 2020 19:57:31   #
a6k Loc: Detroit & Sanibel
 
User ID wrote:
Similar story here. ...
Acoarst the other half is the challenge !


"acoarst" is not English.

Being unfamiliar with it, I tried to Google it and got:

Did you mean:
acaros translation
across translation
acosta translation


Do you mean "of course"? Something else?

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 21:07:17   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
a6k wrote:
"acoarst" is not English.

Being unfamiliar with it, I tried to Google it and got:

Did you mean:
acaros translation
across translation
acosta translation


Do you mean "of course"? Something else?


He thinks it’s a cute colloquialism. At least I hope he doesn’t actually think it’s a word.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 21:15:36   #
User ID
 
a6k wrote:


Do you mean "of course"?


Acoarst !

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 21:21:10   #
User ID
 
SuperflyTNT wrote:
He thinks it’s a cute colloquialism. At least I hope he doesn’t actually think it’s a word.


Managed to convince my autocomplete that it’s a word. Kewt enuf. Yer kewt 2. Luuuuurve yer aviatar. Dorble twins.

Reply
 
 
Jul 28, 2020 22:35:43   #
Paul Diamond Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
 
Hi, why don't we get back on subject. Mirror lenses, quality, ability to use them with the cameras of today?

The best of the mirror lenses of the end of the 20th century can still be used by people who, frankly, will never afford a Nikon Prime at $10K or $12K. Their 24MP cameras can get good pics at a low price from a lens that is easy to carry into the field. Still recommend a tripod or monopod with 500mm or longer lenses. Get them, using today's dollars to buy yesterday's technology = effective compromise of a used name brand "classic" mirror lens vs. a "long as your arm" prime or telephoto of the same generation (or 'modern' cheap lenses using the same 'old' optical design of decades ago. - Want to play with long telephoto and you are willing to accept non-autofocus? This is worth exploring at a fraction of the cost these lenses originally were (for the value of the dollar at that time!).

And, if you have a 4/3 or other smaller size crop sensor in your camera, the 500 mm mirror lens will have the same field of view as an even longer telephoto. Can't focus close enough? Get an extension tube to help you. Birds, bugs fly away before you can take your picture, learn practice and patience, quicker "seeing" and focusing to help you get the pics that the National Geographic photographers of long ago faced when they took these great photos you admired so much when growing up. You are now using the same gear or similar geat to the best of the 60s, 70s, 80s.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 22:58:29   #
Paul Diamond Loc: Atlanta, GA, USA
 
And the very best of the catadioptric mirror lenses are usable with the high MP cameras of today - if the lens is still in proper alignment, has no 'balsam separation' between the optical lenses, no fungus growing and spreading across any of the lenses or between the elements and the mirror coating is still intact. Next, if the mirror lens has 'passed' the first test, does the focusing feel smooth and usable? Last (or first), does it have a mount that will fit onto your camera?

Recommend that you buy through a venue like ebay or something similar that allows you to receive the lens and test it on your equipment or return it if it is not satisfactory.

This should save you at least one 'bad' purchase on the way to finding a good to great lens for a bargain price! Happy Hunting.

Reply
Jul 28, 2020 23:37:39   #
Canisdirus
 
Paul Diamond wrote:
And the very best of the catadioptric mirror lenses are usable with the high MP cameras of today - if the lens is still in proper alignment, has no 'balsam separation' between the optical lenses, no fungus growing and spreading across any of the lenses or between the elements and the mirror coating is still intact. Next, if the mirror lens has 'passed' the first test, does the focusing feel smooth and usable? Last (or first), does it have a mount that will fit onto your camera?

Recommend that you buy through a venue like ebay or something similar that allows you to receive the lens and test it on your equipment or return it if it is not satisfactory.

This should save you at least one 'bad' purchase on the way to finding a good to great lens for a bargain price! Happy Hunting.
And the very best of the catadioptric mirror lense... (show quote)


Usable, but pics will be soft by comparison to other lenses. They are just getting left behind by technology...along with a LOT of other lenses.
Even the venerable Nikon 105 micro 2.8 cannot resolve past 36 MP. I don't think anyone would argue a catadioptric lens is sharper than the 105.
There is an entire list of Nikon lenses that cannot keep up with todays camera bodies. I talk about Nikon only because it's the only line I could find where testing was done. 27 lenses were tested...not old lenses either...10 failed (including the 105 micro).
If you have a 24mp camera...you're fine...for now.
But the tech of cameras and their respective lenses keeps moving at a very fast clip.
I have some fine Minolta glass that does great on my Sony A77M2...but I'm not even going to bother attaching them to my Sony A7RIV ... waste of time and effort.
So folks will either have to buy the newer lenses...which are incredibly sharp (they have to be)...or stay in the lower MP bracketed camera bodies...forever.

Reply
Jul 29, 2020 01:31:15   #
User ID
 
Canisdirus wrote:
Usable, but pics will be soft by comparison to other lenses. They are just getting left behind by technology...along with a LOT of other lenses.
Even the venerable Nikon 105 micro 2.8 cannot resolve past 36 MP. I don't think anyone would argue a catadioptric lens is sharper than the 105.
There is an entire list of Nikon lenses that cannot keep up with todays camera bodies. I talk about Nikon only because it's the only line I could find where testing was done. 27 lenses were tested...not old lenses either...10 failed (including the 105 micro).
If you have a 24mp camera...you're fine...for now.
But the tech of cameras and their respective lenses keeps moving at a very fast clip.
I have some fine Minolta glass that does great on my Sony A77M2...but I'm not even going to bother attaching them to my Sony A7RIV ... waste of time and effort.
So folks will either have to buy the newer lenses...which are incredibly sharp (they have to be)...or stay in the lower MP bracketed camera bodies...forever.
Usable, but pics will be soft by comparison to oth... (show quote)


Lab tests support what you say concerning resolution. Real world situations seldom support what lab tests promise. Higher resolution is not the main reason extra MP are beneficial. More MP means reduced pixelation, which reduces annoying pixel effects along edges of diagonal lines and broad curves. Less pixelation is desirable with any half decent lens. More pixels would also mean less compromise of IQ when leveling a horizon or correcting keystoning in post.

I own no “super lenses” but I still shoot murals and mosaics anyway. Both these subjects do look much better at 80MP. Acoarst I use a tripod and stick to only favorable apertures. Surely there will be some contexts in which the ultra lenses show their full worth. But having never printed larger than 30”x40” I’ve not yet bumped into them.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 4 of 4
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.