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Once again…The Mask!
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Note: posting politics outside of the Attic is against UHH rules. Users that bring politics into this discussion will have their accounts banned from replying in this topic. Repeated violations will lead to account suspension.
 
Jul 17, 2020 12:30:33   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
rehess wrote:
and people such as the Governors of Florida and Georgia don’t seem to care.
At age 72, I very likely won’t survive to see the end of this thing.


I'm 76, so I think I'm past the "endangered" age.

But, I think you have a qualifier at the end of that sentence. The way I understand it, there will be no end. Covid-19 will keep re-appearing, and Americans will continue to argue over whether or not to wear masks.

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Jul 17, 2020 12:37:25   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I'm 76, so I think I'm past the "endangered" age.

But, I think you have a qualifier at the end of that sentence. The way I understand it, there will be no end. Covid-19 will keep re-appearing, and Americans will continue to argue over whether or not to wear masks.

Not necessarily 'continue to argue'.
We do not argue about whether pools should be closed during "polio season" for some odd reason.

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Jul 17, 2020 12:48:16   #
Redmond Loc: Oregon
 
all sides of the issue, seem to be in your statement. While I never thought at this time in my life, I would be watching, trying not get sick from this virus. I only have one thought, face mask or ventilator,my choice. I know which one I choose...

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Jul 17, 2020 13:30:47   #
machia Loc: NJ
 
jerryc41 wrote:
I'm 76, so I think I'm past the "endangered" age.

But, I think you have a qualifier at the end of that sentence. The way I understand it, there will be no end. Covid-19 will keep re-appearing, and Americans will continue to argue over whether or not to wear masks.

It will disappear, like it did in the protests, 2021 isn’t an election year.
It will still be out there, but the media will refocus their efforts and this virus will be put into perspective by science and actual data. It’s a very serious virus, but politics has confused a nation.
Have a great day. Stay healthy.

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Jul 17, 2020 13:32:40   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
machia wrote:
It will disappear, like it did in the protests, 2021 isn’t an election year.
It will still be out there, but the media will refocus their efforts.
Have a great day. Stay healthy.

It's existence does not depend on publicity.
People will get sick until they don't, and the media will refocus their efforts only if no one if getting sick.

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Jul 17, 2020 14:25:35   #
sumo Loc: Houston suburb
 
[quote=rehess]It's existence does not depend on publicity.
People will get sick until they don't, and the media will refocus their efforts only if no one if getting sick.[/quote


So. I guess you are saying the media speaks the truth

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Jul 17, 2020 14:34:12   #
nobody13579
 
srt101fan wrote:
Is it possible to have a civil and unemotional discussion of the issue of masking? I’d like to think so and want to give it a try. By way of background, I’ve been called a “Constitutional Conservative” by friends; I consider myself an independent, espousing a liberal or conservative view depending on the issue. In other words, my thinking and judgment is issue-based and, hopefully, always independent of political bias.

I have firm beliefs concerning the masking issue but I fully recognize that there are other, to me perhaps incomprehensible, points of view. I would like to understand these better. Please help me do that with thoughtful, civil and unemotional responses to my positions.

#1 – Covid-19 is a very large and nasty threat to our personal and national health and welfare: Yes, it is a bigger threat to older folks and those with preexisting health issues but it attacks all ages. It is much worse than the common flu. It makes no sense to downplay the magnitude of the problem. So the first step to an effective national response is for all of us to agree that this is a very serious problem. Some people get hung up on what they consider false statistics, how deaths are categorized, how testing results are published, etc. Can we stop this sideshow, folks, and agree that we’ve got a helluva problem and that we all need to contribute to the solution?

#2 – Mask effectiveness: Some argue that masks are ineffective in filtering out viruses and are therefore useless. Generally true that they can’t trap single, individual virus particles. But the virus isn’t dispersed that way. The biggest threat is viruses attached to droplets of fluids expelled in an infected person’s breath, sneeze or cough. True, recent findings suggest the viruses may also travel in aerosol “clouds” that could be airborne for some time (an aerosol can be loosely defined as a cloud of small particles or droplets whose travel is influenced more by air movement than by gravity). But threat aerosol droplets/particles are still bigger than individual viruses. And speaking of individual viruses, the “viral load” (or viral "dose") is a factor in that it determines the severity of the illness. So, do masks offer perfect protection? No. Do they reduce the risk? Absolutely....

#3 – Masks reduce the probability of an infected person infecting others: This one would seem to be tough to argue against. We know that face coverings can stop droplets expelled with breath air, sneezing and coughing. Many infected people have no symptoms and don’t know they are carriers. Doesn’t it make sense to sacrifice a little of your personal freedom and put up with a little discomfort in order to further the safety of others, including your families and friends? What would be your reasons for not doing it?

#4 – Self-protection - masks reduce the probability of you getting infected: Much has been made of the value of face coverings in reducing the dispersion of coronavirus by infected persons. Not much has been said of the protection against coronavirus provided to the individuals wearing the mask. I’ve seen this denied or downplayed. I don’t understand why. The filtration material works the same way, whether the air stream is going one way or the other. Granted, the dynamics of the filter challenge are different. In preventing the spread of coronavirus by an infected person we are trying to stop the droplets at the source. When considering the self-protection aspect of wearing a mask we may be faced with a somewhat different filter challenge in that our physical position relative to the airborne threat, as well as the size of the droplets, may be different. Mask construction and fit are also issues. But masks will reduce the risk of infection to the wearer. How much? There are too many variables to allow accurate assessment. But for me, even a slight risk reduction (and I believe it is significantly more than “slight”) is worth putting up with the downsides. Isn’t it for you?

#5 – Positive effect of mask-wearing on businesses: We all lament the terrible effect coronavirus has had on small businesses and the economy in general. Nobody wants to see local stores and businesses shut down. I believe that businesses would be helped if everyone wore a mask and acted prudently when in public. Mask-wearing would reduce the overall spread of the virus thus moving faster towards relaxation of closures. But it also could have another positive effect. Many people are reluctant to go anywhere because of fear of infection. With everyone wearing masks there would be less fear and more willingness to support business establishments. Isn't this a positive effect of wearing masks in public?

#6 – “It’s an infringement on my rights”: Some say that universal mask requirements are an encroachment on their rights and freedoms. I don’t understand that. I’m not free to shout “Fire!” in a movie theater, talk about bombs when sitting in an airplane, run around the streets naked or urinate in public. I believe in individualism but gladly give up these rights for the common good. But there is another way to look at this. Why not just wear a mask voluntarily based on the benefits discussed above?

#7 – Denial of service to those not wearing a mask: We’ve seen examples of people getting very upset and aggressive when told they can’t come into a store without a mask. This is another one I don’t understand. Why can’t a store insist on mask-wearing? Do you also object to their restrictions against shoeless and shirtless customers? I understand that some people can’t wear masks (difficulty breathing, etc.). But these are special cases and there should be ways to handle them.

#8 – Mask design and availability: In my opinion we are in a war. The government, under the Defense Production Act, should take steps to ensure availability of quality masks not just for health care providers but for all. There should also be a review of mask designs and some guidelines provided for what constitutes an acceptable mask for the public. Should everyone have an N95 mask? Maybe. The masks should be easily decontaminable for reuse. Necessary research and development should be identified and acted on. Some might say it’s too late for that. But what about the next time?

Folks, it’s not an “all or nothing” situation. The name of the game is risk reduction and we should all do our share….wearing a mask is a big part of that.

As I said, I’m interested in understanding why all the negativism regarding mask-wearing. I would appreciate hearing your reasons if you disagree with any of what I’ve said above . But, please, no politics!

Thank you if you got this far!
Is it possible to have a civil and unemotional dis... (show quote)



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Jul 17, 2020 14:37:11   #
nobody13579
 
cmc4214 wrote:
The more we slow the progression of this disease, the longer it will be around



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Jul 17, 2020 14:55:31   #
rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA
 
sumo wrote:
So. I guess you are saying the media speaks the truth

Yes, they normally do.

I have seen numerous live interviews which match what they report.

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Jul 17, 2020 14:58:08   #
Jack B Loc: Mount Pleasant, SC
 
You and I have very similar philosophies. Thank you for your words.
Jack B

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Jul 17, 2020 15:01:11   #
hj Loc: Florida
 
rehess wrote:
and people such as the Governors of Florida and Georgia don’t seem to care.
At age 72, I very likely won’t survive to see the end of this thing.


Do you not understand the concept of "Leave politics out of the discussion?"

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Jul 17, 2020 15:05:00   #
exakta56 Loc: Orford,New Hampshire
 
David, Thanks for this comprehensive article on the benefits of wearing a mask. Someone suggested that it was too long...I can't think of any praise that could possibly be given as a reply. But I do understand the persons point of view. Most today have the reading attention span of a gnat.Ok OK! maybe a chipmonk! lol

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Jul 17, 2020 15:09:32   #
jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY
 
Stash wrote:
I guess I am one of the five.


Plus 1.

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Jul 17, 2020 15:10:12   #
BBurns Loc: South Bay, California
 
Too many people have decided that masks are a political issue.
They aren’t.
They are an IQ test where everyone gets to see the results!

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Jul 17, 2020 15:12:44   #
DocDav Loc: IN
 
I run a podiatry office and I follow this as much as possible. I could tweak your statement a "bit" but in general it is right on.

No one comes into my office without a mask. If they refuse for other than true medical grounds, they are asked to leave.

REALLY severe COPD is one such. Most patients, even with COPD, when not active and sitting at rest can wear a mask. I had to work without mine once for a deaf patient who relies on lip reading.

Pretty much it.

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Note: posting politics outside of the Attic is against UHH rules. Users that bring politics into this discussion will have their accounts banned from replying in this topic. Repeated violations will lead to account suspension.
 
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