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Jul 13, 2020 17:51:36   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
danbir1 wrote:
OK, so bad could be a bad composition, bad lighting, bad color (over or under saturated) and more = BAD
Now if anyone thinks it is a 3 or a 5 on a 1-10 scale, it is their own opinion, but most of us here on UHH know what a bad photo looks like.


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Jul 13, 2020 18:40:23   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
via the lens wrote:
I post in a couple of forums. I show images, offer insights into how I got the image, and always try to help others. I don't say bad things about people, I ignore many comments that do bother me in one way or another, and I've always tried to say things in a manner that does not imply anything negative or critical. I realized a long time ago that we are all different and we all think very differently and I like those differences for the most part. I posted something in a forum and someone responded and then I responded back. Nothing in the conversation, either his comments or mine, were offensive in any way from my point of view. The moderator of the forum, who is a very nice person, sent me a private email saying that a part of what I put in my response was cut out by the moderator because the moderator felt/believed/thought it was not "friendly, supportive conversation."

The topic was about SOOC to some degree, although not the original post. The sentence below was written by one of the posters, and I believed it was actually written in jest but I responded, his post said, "Realize you are upsetting the people who say that the SOOC is a gift from god and it is "My Style."

My response was "In reality the only image straight out of the camera (for the most part) would be a RAW file, not a JPEG file. As we all know, a JPEG is a processed file, letting the camera make all the decisions, so, a camera is the artist for a JPEG file, not the photographer. And any "style" that may be involved can be contributed to the camera, not the photographer." Part of that response included the words, which were cut out by the moderator, "A rational, thinking individual would know this." I meant the sentence not as a criticism of anyone but as a reference to rational, linear thought processes using science, i.e. RAW is not processed but JPEG is processed so only RAW can actually be SOOC [and, in fact, it is often referred to as a negative], even though there is a belief that SOOC applies to JPEG. I had no ill intent nor was I trying to "put anyone down" in anyway.

The moderator's response to me was this: "Here we are again, Connie, chatting about topic content. I deleted a sentence in your reply to --: A rational, thinking individual would know this.

Please remember that -- Forum is about friendly, supportive conversations. Let's please leave criticism of the great unwashed to main discussion forum.

Thanks much!"

I am stunned that this person would reply in this way, "criticism of the great unwashed" and I have no idea at all what the person means by that. I am also insulted to some degree that this person would assume that I would say something offensive. I can only guess that saying the words "rational" and "thinking individual" were found to be offensive words by the moderator. Obviously the moderator saw those two words and interpolated them to his/her way of thinking, her thinking had absolutely no place in my mind.

What is the role of a forum moderator? To cut out things they don't like, don't agree with, or something THEY think is bad or wrong in some way? How far does a moderator go? I can see a moderator taking down a vile, ranting post as that would be obviously hurtful. But after that, what are the guidelines? Are we now a society that believes we can only say things one way and there is no room for saying something another way? I can also see a moderator posting something in the forum that says, in essence, "hey, cool it." And I've seen that before and that does seem to be needed at times. This actually reminds me of the discussions going on now with Amazon and Facebook and perhaps other sites. I absolutely agree that our conversations should be civil and inclusive and that no one has the right to berate, belittle, or generally snarl at others but should all of our words now be formed by the moderator or some "thought police" type person?

I have to admit I am more than a little perplexed by the email I got. Obviously I won't be posting in that particular forum anymore (and I really did like the forum and have learned a few things in it) as I don't care for that type of extreme policing. Your thoughts on this?
I post in a couple of forums. I show images, offe... (show quote)

I've been here for years and have unfortunately been involved in a number of conversations in the Main Photography forum which turned very nasty, and I'm not aware of moderators interceding very often. However, some forum moderators want to maintain a high level of decorum. As an example I know the moderator of the Post-Processing Digital Images forum tries to maintain a friendly, inclusive environment, which remains focused on its purpose, and steps in if a thread starts to get divisive or nasty. That's a good thing in my opinion. What forum were you in?

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Jul 13, 2020 18:47:36   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
Linda From Maine wrote:
Connie, surely you know how easy it is for someone to find where you posted those words. No need for secrecy once you've quoted your own comments.

I didn't see this main forum topic until I'd sent you my reply - a reply I thought was so thoughtfully written, I've included it as an attachment here for all to enjoy 😇

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't gratified to read that two people (so far) have interpreted the comment in the way I feared others might, and that another has mentioned the value of a "relatively focused venue where we can discuss our hobby without the vitriol and constant flame wars."

Whether you agree with my original action or with this attachment isn't really of concern, though. After 7+ years on UHH, I've seen and heard it all. I receive a lot of public and private support, and I receive occasional public and private "hate mail." Onward through the fog!
Connie, surely you know how easy it is for someone... (show quote)


I knew this was about you. There is no pleasing everyone. Just keep on doing what you've been doing. It's nice to post in a forum where people treat each other with respect.

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Jul 13, 2020 18:58:50   #
Linda From Maine Loc: Yakima, Washington
 
mwsilvers wrote:
I knew this was about you. There is no pleasing everyone. Just keep on doing what you've been doing. It's nice to post in a forum where people treat each other with respect.
I got a good chuckle from your other entry, Mark

These will be my final comments in this topic. Gotta wrap up before the Day 2 people join in:

1. Connie posted this public topic before I'd even read her reply to my first pm, let alone had a chance to comment back to her. I think we could have worked out a compromise or at a minimum, better understood each other's positions if given a chance.

2. To the basic question of how much control should a section manager have: some specialty sections are managed by the original creators of those sections; all are volunteers. Each person or pair or trio of managers have their own styles of managing and their own base line for interceding. Obviously, some are more laissez-faire than others (main discussion, photo gallery, chit-chat, analysis and the other 3 "original" forums are managed by Admin/UHH owner and only him)

3. As seen in this topic already, many of the most vocal opinions are given by those who rarely, if ever, create topics, and rarely, if ever, support the volunteer-moderated sections. It's very easy to criticize, a lot harder to make meaningful contributions.

All the best to the folks who care. We are family 🤗

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Jul 13, 2020 19:00:39   #
Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States
 
Snarky verboten.

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Jul 13, 2020 19:24:12   #
RichardSM Loc: Back in Texas
 
via the lens wrote:
I did drop the forum but could not in good conscious give it an undesirable review. It was a good forum and is fairly well-managed and informative, but I do think the moderator has stepped a bit over the line by deleting things that COULD be construed by someone as offensive. We live in a nanny world and this is a good example of that in my opinion.


Okay I can understand that. But maybe a personal note too the moderator that you feel that he/she stepped a bit over the line. You have every right too do this in my opinion!

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Jul 13, 2020 23:51:54   #
jaymatt Loc: Alexandria, Indiana
 
It looks to ma as if you were spot-on. Your moderator is too touchy-feely.

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Jul 14, 2020 21:03:49   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
jaymatt wrote:
It looks to ma as if you were spot-on. Your moderator is too touchy-feely.


Really? Do you know this from your own experience with that person? I know the moderator in question and she is most definitely not too touchy-feely. She
does work very hard though to make posting there a useful and pleasant experience.

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Jul 15, 2020 08:59:45   #
Race Raccoon Loc: Yankton, South Dakota
 
Not what you're looking for but in the case of jpegs, the photographer sets up the camera in order to create the images s/he desires in the same manner as the photographer who post processes. In either case it's the photographer who is in charge, not the camera or the computer/software.

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Jul 15, 2020 12:08:10   #
Shootist Loc: Wyoming
 
via the lens wrote:
OK, I can understand that. But was it handled correctly? Is it fair for a moderator to simply decide what someone else may mean and then delete content?


Actually, yes. It is the job (not an easy one) of a moderator to guide a forum to the best of their ability. Without some guidance the value of that forum would rapidly deteriorate. Does each moderator make absolutely correct decisions? I think we all know the answer to that question. I suggest that the moderator deserves praise for doing a difficult and necessary job, if they make mistakes then I guess they must be humans like the rest of us. Giving a little grace often is the best policy.

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