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Automatic Extension Tubes for Macro Phototography
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Jun 19, 2020 08:54:38   #
Winslowe
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
The DOF and image quality are as you state, but IIRC a 50mm lens with 50mm of extension would give you greater than 1:1 magnification

Focusing the lens closer than infinity (in effect increasing extension) will increase magnification - is this what you are thinking?

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Jun 19, 2020 09:15:55   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
If you’re serious about macro, a tripod and a focusing rail are the way to go, plus appropriate lighting. A macro lens will give higher quality than tubes with a non-macro lens. Given all of that, tubes can give you great results. My Tokina 100mm Macro was only about $350. Does a great job.

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Jun 19, 2020 10:21:14   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
Winslowe wrote:
Focusing the lens closer than infinity (in effect increasing extension) will increase magnification - is this what you are thinking?


See this link (third paragraph) for what I was thinking...

https://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/macro-extension-tubes-closeup.htm

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Jun 19, 2020 10:40:12   #
Don, the 2nd son Loc: Crowded Florida
 
Silverrails wrote:
I have read some articles concerning Photography Auto Extension Tubes, some say they are great for doing Macro Photography, other articles seem to relate issues, with not enough light, requiring to low of a Shutter Speed or Aperture. Also difficulty with motion blur. I am considering them to use with my Nikon D3300 and possibly with my Nikon 18-140mm Lens. I have seen them used on Ebay for a variety of prices, also know they are available at B&H and other stores for around $129.00 new, or depending on the particular Brand at a different price.
I would like to have more advice, suggestions, etc. from my fellow Hedgehogs, before I choose.
I have read some articles concerning Photography A... (show quote)


Personally the "automatic" issue is most important in the field as manually stopping down causes me to loose my focus point and thus is very frustrating. I need the lens to stop down "automatically' when I trip the shutter. Tubes that can't do that electrically are no help to me.

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Jun 19, 2020 10:43:12   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
Silverrails wrote:
I have read some articles concerning Photography Auto Extension Tubes, some say they are great for doing Macro Photography, other articles seem to relate issues, with not enough light, requiring to low of a Shutter Speed or Aperture. Also difficulty with motion blur. I am considering them to use with my Nikon D3300 and possibly with my Nikon 18-140mm Lens. I have seen them used on Ebay for a variety of prices, also know they are available at B&H and other stores for around $129.00 new, or depending on the particular Brand at a different price.
I would like to have more advice, suggestions, etc. from my fellow Hedgehogs, before I choose.
I have read some articles concerning Photography A... (show quote)


Insufficient light for macro work is always an issue, no fault of extension tubes when they're used. You'll find the same challenges no matter how you do close-up work: High magnification makes it more difficult to hold the camera steady for a sharp shot... depth of field is naturally very shallow at higher magnification, requiring you to stop down a lot in search of a little more and that stopping down compounds the need for slower shutter speeds and/or higher ISOs... "light fall off" occurs within macro lenses, same as it does in extension tubes. There are a number of different tools & techniques used to make macro shots possible, stuff like: Macro flash... focus stacking... tripods or monopods... focusing rails... even refrigerating live subjects to temporarily immobilize them!

Macro extension tubes are extremely versatile and useful. They can be used with virtually any lens... even on macro lenses to push their degree of magnification higher than is natively possible with the lens alone. Some lenses work better than others. Usually a short telephoto is the best type of lens to extend.... you might try the 50mm to 100mm range of your zoom, for example. Shorter focal lengths tend to put you too close to subjects at higher magnifications, while longer focal lengths are more difficult to keep steady and render super shallow depth of field.

I learned to use macro extension tubes 25, 30 or more years ago, back when I was shooting film. They are so handy to have... and relatively inexpensive... I make a point of always having a set for whatever system I'm using and some of them are always in my camera bag. For my Canon DSLR system I currently have the Kenko set (12mm, 20mm and 36mm) as well as three of the Canon OEM extension tubes (two 12mm, one 25mm). All these can be used singly or in any combination. I am a little careful not to stack too many together, which can put heavy strain on the bayonet mount connections when using big lenses and full size DSLRs. The Canon tubes are only sold singly and one of them can cost as much as the entire Kenko set, which are pretty similar quality.

I recently picked up a small mirrorless system and haven yet gotten extensions for use with it, but I'm shopping for them and will buy some soon. I know I'll want them sooner or later.

I've used extensions with lenses from 20mm to 500mm.... in both cases to allow the lenses to focus closer than they are natively able to do. A 12mm extension behind my 20mm lens allowed it to focus on flower petals that were actually touching the front element of the lens. At the other extreme, a 36mm extension on a 500mm lens allowed it to focus at around 10 or 12 feet, where it normally could focus no closer than 14 or 15 feet. Neither of those examples renders "macro" magnification, by any means (some people think 1:1 or life size magnification that many macro lenses are capable of is the minimum req'd to qualify as "macro".... others think 1:2 or one half life size qualifies, and there are quite a few lenses labelled "Macro" where this is the best they can do... unless you add an extension tube behind them. The 500mm lens mentioned above is only able to shoot about 1:8 magnification on its own! Just a little more was needed to tightly frame a small subject, and that 36mm extension was the solution.

Macro extension tubes are not a substitute for a true macro lens... but have a lot of value in their own right and can allow you to do close-up work that wouldn't otherwise be possible. I recommend you give them a try. Be a little careful, though. Based on the price you quoted (~$130) I know you're considering the Kenko set, which is a good one. I don't know about the Kenko set in Nikon mount... the Canon version I use is an older one that's only usable on "EF" or full frame-capable lenses, cannot be used on Canon's "EF-S" or "crop only" lenses... but that's no problem for my uses. I don't think there is an issue like this with the Kenko tubes for Nikon, but there may be other considerations or limitations that can be avoided buying newer versions.

In my opinion, extension tubes are generally a better solution than "close-up lenses" or "diopters" that screw into the front of a lens to allow it to focus closer. Extension tubes have no internal optics... just air... avoiding some possible effects on image quality. Close-up lenses can do more "harm" to images.... especially the really cheap ones! Plus close-up lenses aren't as versatile... they are sized to a lens, so may or may not be usable on other lenses, while extension tubes can pretty much be used with all lenses.

This is not to say that macro extension tubes have no effect on image quality. There is some. Using them forces lenses to do things they weren't designed to do... to focus closer than intended. This can lead to some compromises such as "soft" corners and vignetting. However, these aren't necessarily a bad thing. For the following image I was looking for those effects and deliberately used a non-macro 50mm lens at a larger and aperture with an extension tube, which I knew from experience would show some softening and vignetting...



Other lenses work better with extension added. I was out shooting wildlife locally with a 500mm and hadn't brought a macro lens with me, when I saw opportunity for the following image. An extension tube behind my non-macro 70-200mm zoom made it possible...



And for the following I was shooting with a vintage macro lens that's limited to 1:2 maximum, on it's own. I added an extension tube for a little bit higher magnification....



There are auto extension tubes less expensive than the Kenko... Vello, Opteka and others offer them for between $90 and $50. From what I've seen, they may not have as strong latching mechanism, tend to be more plasticky and may be less durable than the Kenko... but they can be an alternative, perhaps if only planning to use them with lighter weight cameras and lenses.

There are also really cheap extension tubes... under $25. I call them "dumb tubes" because they lack the electronic connections of the more expensive "auto" tubes. These cheaper tubes do not allow lens and camera to "communicate", so they don't support auto focus or aperture control in many modern camera systems. The lack of auto focus isn't a very big deal. Many macro shooters prefer to use manual focus methods anyway. Not being able to control the lens aperture is a much bigger deal and for that reason I'd avoid these for use with most modern cameras and lenses. "Dumb" tubes can be fine with vintage lenses or others that have aperture control built into the lens itself... but many modern lenses (all Nikon "G" lenses, for example) simply don't have that feature.

Nikon's own PK-series extension tubes... available in three sizes, but only sold individually (and singly almost as expensive as the entire Kenko set).... also don't support auto focus at all, or aperture control with G-type lenses.

Get the tubes... I highly recommend the Kenko... experiment with and learn to use them. You will probably find them quite useful, even if you eventually get a "true" macro lens!

EDIT: There is no exact formula for how much extension you'll need to achieve, say, 1:1 magnification. Technically, yes, with a 50mm focal length you'd need 50mm worth of extension. However all lenses have at least some closer focusing ability, even when it's nowhere near "true macro" levels of magnification... so they will not need all that much extension. Basic rule of thumb is the longer the focal length, the more extension you'll need to significantly change a lens' closest focusing ability and max magnification. I have a 300mm lens that's only able to do about 0.12X magnification (about 1:8) on its own... but I also have another 300mm that can do better than 0.25X or 1:4 life size and a 100-400mm zoom that's able to do more than 0.3X (almost 1:3 or 1/3 life size) on it's own. All these lenses can be pushed for focus closer and render higher magnification by adding one or more extension tubes. But adding 36mm to any of them would have less effect than adding that same extension to, say, an 85mm, 100mm or 135mm lens.

It is usually, but not always, best to use extensions with prime lenses rather than zooms.... If, for no other reason, because it's easier to remember how extension effects a lens with a single, fixed focal length, than it is with a zoom that has a range of focal lengths. More complex optical formulas of zooms also may see a greater image quality "hit" if used with extension. But you really have to just give it a try, experiment and see what happens.

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Jun 19, 2020 10:56:19   #
photoman43
 
I use auto extension tubes on my Nikon camera bodies. Nikon does not make an extension tube that supports AF. Most buy third party extension tubes with a Nikon mount. Mine are made by Kenko.

You have to use them carefully as they are made mostly of plastic and are not that robust. And if used on some full frame bodies with full frame lenses, you may get some slight vignetting in the four corners of the image. Try never to use more than one extension tube at a time as they can separate.

Canon shooters should buy a set of Canon extension tubes.

If your Nikon body is compatible with the Nikon made tubes, consider one or more of the Nikon tubes as they are all metal and wider in diameter so vignetting is not an issue. Just remember that focus will have to be done manually but shooting info will transfer to the image.

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Jun 19, 2020 11:09:15   #
Thomas902 Loc: Washington DC
 
Alan Myers speaks with much wisdom...
"...Get the tubes... I highly recommend the Kenko..."
I have them and still use them occasionally...
The good news is that they are small and feather light, no reason not to have them in your kit...

btw, as others have mention... ultimately you may want to obtain a macro lens...
My recommendation is the Tokina 100mm f/2.8 not only is it less that half the price of camera vendor's macros at the same FL it is arguably of higher optical quality...

But then I'm a portrait photographer and that Tokina 100mm f/2.8 totally rocks as a portrait lens...
HOWEVER that said sadly those who are recommending this EPIC lens failed to mention it won't auto focus with on the OP's D3300... albeit for macro you still can manual focus (but that's a pain for normal usage). Please folks think before your post YOUR favorite macro lens... will it ACTUALLY work as designed on the OP's camera?

All the best on your journey Silverrails... go with the tubes, but be VERY CAREFUL with your Nikon 18-140mm Lens... it may over stress the plastic tubes... you'll know if/when you want to purchase a more costly solution...

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Jun 19, 2020 11:23:55   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
photoman43 wrote:
I use auto extension tubes on my Nikon camera bodies. Nikon does not make an extension tube that supports AF. Most buy third party extension tubes with a Nikon mount. Mine are made by Kenko.

You have to use them carefully as they are made mostly of plastic and are not that robust. And if used on some full frame bodies with full frame lenses, you may get some slight vignetting in the four corners of the image. Try never to use more than one extension tube at a time as they can separate.

Canon shooters should buy a set of Canon extension tubes.

If your Nikon body is compatible with the Nikon made tubes, consider one or more of the Nikon tubes as they are all metal and wider in diameter so vignetting is not an issue. Just remember that focus will have to be done manually but shooting info will transfer to the image.
I use auto extension tubes on my Nikon camera bodi... (show quote)


Huh?

My Kenko tubes appear to be metal and their design, materials and construction are virtually identical to my OEM Canon tubes. I have to say, my Kenko set is older... I've used it for at least 15 years. Maybe newer ones aren't metal. I dunno. However, plastic can be tough too.... "Engineered" or "fiber reinforced" or even "carbon fiber" (which is a form of plastic).

Kenko tube set of three for Canon (12mm, 20mm, 36mm) sells for about $130.

A single Canon 12mm II extension tube costs $85, while a single Canon 25mm II extension tube costs $140.

I don't do it a lot, but with both Kenko and Canon i've stacked tubes at times and never had any problem. I'd be more reluctant to do so with the less well made and more plasticky Vello, Fotodiox, Movo, Viltrox, Meike, Zuiko, etc. tubes... especially with heavier cameras and lenses. Anyone who buys the Canon tubes instead of the Kenko also may need to stack them more often due to the more limited lengths of Canon tubes. For example, Canon's longest is 25mm, while the Kenko set provides a 36mm. If you need that much extension, it could be done with one Kenko tube, where you'd have to stack a Canon 12mm with a 25mm to have the same with those OEM tubes.

Nikon shooters don't have to be very concerned about their camera being compatible with the Nikon PK-series tubes (it can be worked around). They need to be concerned about their lens compatibility. "G" type lenses' apertures cannot be controlled on the Nikon extension tubes (but can on the Kenko, Vello, Fotodiox, Movo, etc.) Lack of AF is not too big a deal. Lack of aperture control would make for an unusable combo, with no real work-around.

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Jun 19, 2020 11:32:31   #
Screamin Scott Loc: Marshfield Wi, Baltimore Md, now Dallas Ga
 
amfoto1 wrote:
Huh?

My Kenko tubes appear to be metal and their design, materials and construction are virtually identical to my OEM Canon tubes. I have to say, my Kenko set is older... I've used it for at least 15 years. Maybe newer ones aren't metal. I dunno.

Kenko tube set of three for Canon (12mm, 20mm, 36mm) sells for about $130.

A single OEM Canon 12mm II extension tube costs $85, while a single Canon 25mm II extension tube costs $140.

I don't do it a lot, but with both the Kenko and the Canon i've stacked tubes at times and never had any problem. I'd be more reluctant to do so with the less well made and more plasticky Vello, Fotodiox, Movo, Viltrox, Meike, Zuiko, etc. tubes. Anyone who buys the Canon instead of the Kenko, may need to stack them more often since there are more limited lengths of Canon tubes. For example, Canon's longest is 25mm... while the Kenko set provides a 36mm. If you need that much extension, it could be done with one Kenko tube, where you'd have to stack a Canon 12mm with a 25mm to have the same with their tubes.

Nikon shooters don't have to be very concerned about their camera being compatible with the Nikon PK-series tubes (it can be worked around). They need to be concerned about their lens compatibility. "G" type lenses' apertures cannot be controlled on the Nikon extension tubes (but can on the Kenko, Vello, Fotodiox, Movo, etc.) Lack of AF is not too big a deal. Lack of aperture control would make for an unusable combo, with no real work-around.
Huh? br br My Kenko tubes appear to be metal and ... (show quote)


They do have to be concerned about camera compatibility as the base model cameras cannot meter with the PK series of tubes. That is one reason I didn't get a base model camera.... The cameras I have will all use the accessories I have with the exception of older Pre-Ai gear which is not compatible.Granted, older MF gear can only meter in A and M modes, but at least they will meter...

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Jun 19, 2020 11:51:43   #
photoman43
 
You are correct. It is lens compatibility not camera. Good correction.

All of my Kenko tubes have been made of plastic with a thin metal edge where they mate. I have had three different Kenko tubes separate (each in three different sets of tubes) --metal edge comes apart from the plastic housing. Two times the macro lens fell to the ground, without any real damage to the lens fortunately. Another time, the separation was only partial.

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Jun 19, 2020 12:05:47   #
amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
 
Screamin Scott wrote:
They do have to be concerned about camera compatibility as the base model cameras cannot meter with the PK series of tubes. That is one reason I didn't get a base model camera.... The cameras I have will all use the accessories I have with the exception of older Pre-Ai gear which is not compatible.Granted, older MF gear can only meter in A and M modes, but at least they will meter...


Thanks Scott...

I guess I typed too fast and worded that poorly. What I should have written was...

I think Nikon users should be more concerned about lens compatibility with the Nikon PK-series tubes, than they are about camera compatibility.

Sure, think about both. But a camera incompatibility can be worked around. While not as quick and convenient as though the lens metering with the camera's built in metering system, it's possible to make fully manual exposures using an external meter or even just doing test shots followed by any necessary exposure adjustments.

On the other hand, it's virtually impossible to use a G-series lens with the PK tubes. Once the tube is installed on that now-common type of lens, there's no means of controlling the aperture at all... even manually.

So anyone considering using the Nikon PK11, PK12 or PK13 certainly may want to think about how compatible it the tubes are with their camera and how the Nikon tubes might impact the way they want to work... But they'll definitely need to look into the feasibility of using those tubes with their lenses. Depending upon their lenses, the PK tubes might not be usable at all. (P.S. I've always wondered why Nikon has never updated the PK tubes to be more fully compatible with both their modern cameras and lenses. I mean, if Kenko, Vello, etc. can do it, certainly Nikon should be able to do it, too!)

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Jun 19, 2020 12:17:11   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
billnikon wrote:
Extension tubes shortens your already limited depth of field. Keep this in mind. A true maco lens does better.


Depth of field depends on magnification and the aperture selected. Whether you use extension tubes with a regular lens or a macro lens the depth field is the same for a given magnification.

Macro lenses are optimized for close focus and have very little barrel or pincushion distortion. They are required for copying flat art and documents. Macro lenses have excellent sharpness.

A regular lens on extension tubes will work fine for 3D objects (e.g. flowers)


Extension tubes come in auto and manual versions. Manual extension tubes have no electrical connection to the camera. You must set the aperture on the lens. Nikon G lenses won't work here unless the tubes have the ability to set the aperture. Auto tubes have full electrical connections and are the easiest to use in most cases.

The effective aperture be comes smaller as magnification increases. You will lose 2 stops between infinity focus and 1:1 magnification. f11 thus becomes f22. Nikon macro lenses recalculate the aperture automatically. Other lenses from various manufacturers do not. This is only important if you are using manual flash and external light meters. The physics is the same whether you have a macro lens or a regular lens on extension tubes.

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Jun 19, 2020 14:00:52   #
mmcgavin
 
Winslowe wrote:
That is plain bogus! You can take a normal 50mm lens with a 50mm extension tube for a 1:1 magnification ratio, or a 50mm macro lens at 1:1, and the depth of field will be the same. The macro lens, of course, will exhibit better corner to corner image quality.


Depth of field is a function of the Magnification ( also called Ratio of Reproduction) and the Aperture (f stop).
This is a very helpful concept as it does away with having to initially consider- focal length and focusing distance.

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Jun 19, 2020 18:39:01   #
imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida
 
Silverrails wrote:
I have read some articles concerning Photography Auto Extension Tubes, some say they are great for doing Macro Photography, other articles seem to relate issues, with not enough light, requiring to low of a Shutter Speed or Aperture. Also difficulty with motion blur. I am considering them to use with my Nikon D3300 and possibly with my Nikon 18-140mm Lens. I have seen them used on Ebay for a variety of prices, also know they are available at B&H and other stores for around $129.00 new, or depending on the particular Brand at a different price.
I would like to have more advice, suggestions, etc. from my fellow Hedgehogs, before I choose.
I have read some articles concerning Photography A... (show quote)


High quality dual element close up lenses that screw to the front of your lens are much more user friendly than tubes - especially on a zoom lens. See Canon 500D......
.

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Jun 19, 2020 19:04:18   #
DWU2 Loc: Phoenix Arizona area
 
imagemeister wrote:
High quality dual element close up lenses that screw to the front of your lens are much more user friendly than tubes - especially on a zoom lens. See Canon 500D......
.


Not sure I understand the user-friendly issue. I have a set of Kenko extension tubes, and I just focus and shoot. They pass through exposure info to the camera. Easy Peasy.

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