sergio

for the purpose indicated full frame is a waste of money. 90D is the camera until 7D Mark III becomes available.
And for many other purposes full frame is not better..

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Yes.

For most photographers I think the 90D would be the best choice among Canon DSLRs.

And I think the 7DII.... with its somewhat different feature set... is a close second place. It might be first choice for some users.

Again, I'm not knocking full frame at all.... If a bird/wildlife photog has the budget for the cameras and lenses, and is willing to lug around the hefty lenses necessary for full frame....Hey, go for it! 5DIV or 1DXIII. Both are excellent and good choices.

Mirrorless versus DSLR is a whole different discussion. In my opinion, for a number of reasons DSLR are still the better choice for sports and most action photography (including some birds & wildlife). But, mirrorless just keep getting better and better... and that's where most of the manufacturers are concentrating their R&D efforts.

Can't comment about the EOS R's AF system. Don't have one and am not familiar with it. I do recall when the camera was announced that Canon bragged the AF system was the fastest of any digital camera, to date. It's also rated to be able to focus in much lower light conditions than any DSLR.

I just recently got my first mirrorless... a Canon M5 (APS-C, 24MP).... and am learning it. But I'm only using it with a small suite of manual focus lenses, primarily as a "walk-around", street photography, portrait camera. It's fun, but in a lot of ways not very comparable to the full frame Canon R-series.

jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ

Having good glass is the most important purchase a bird photographer can make. His choices for camera body are between just a few depending on his budget.

90D is a good start since it shoots 10fps, has a large 35MP sensor and has a pretty good autofocus system. It has some other bells and whistles but isn't exactly the most well built camera made of mainly a lot of lightweight plastic.

7D II is a little better and is what I use most of the time since it is a little more robust than the 90D and shoots 10fps and has a 20MP sensor and two card slots and GPS. I don't mind a crop sensor because it gives me the appearance of more reach when I really need it.

5D IV is only 7fps burst, but I find that fast enough (most) of the time. It too has WiFi, GPS, 2 card slots and a full frame sensor that is 30MP.

1DX series cameras. He could purchase a used original 1DX for a great start into the birding hobby and it really performs - all be it with a smaller 18MP sensor which is actually fine for 95% of the birders out there. You can easily print up to a 3'x2' print (36x24) with all the detail you'd want. The newer Mark II and Mark III's are awesome, but he'll need a mortgage or lottery winning to obtain the money for this prize.

I good piece of glass to start with is the newest Canon 100-400 Mark II. I use this glass a lot when I need to hike longer distances since it's much easier to carry than my 500mm f/4 prime glass. The latter of the two is an awesome piece of glass that can be had for around $3,500 used. But a new Mark II will set him back almost $10k. Of course the 600mm is even better with an even larger price tag. The 600mm lens is up to the Mark III version but the others can also be purchased used for a great discount. A good tripod is recommended for this large and expensive glass.

Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA

I haven’t used many canons but I can’t imagine the EOS R is the fastest. And for tracking fast moving subjects - forget about it. I love this camera for certain things, but I’m out in the woods now with my dog and its maybe focused on 1 out of the 50 tracking photos of her running 🤨 I’ll send along your info to my bird photography friend! Thanks again!

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

I completely agree!

Most photographers would do better spending more on their lenses, less on their cameras. That's particularly true for birds and wildlife.

I also second your recommendation for the Canon EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM "II".... That's a good place to start. It's a great lens at a fair price (not cheap, but also not mortgage-the-house expensive). Very good image quality, tough build, quite good AF and IS performance, very versatile. If needed, add a 1.4X II or III to it, even on an APS-C camera. Speaking of which, it pairs up with 90D particularly well. With 1.4X III on the 100-400 II, 27 out of that camera's 45-point AF system are able to autofocus. With many other Canon only the single, center point would be able to autofocus. (Same with the similar AF system in 80D and... I think... 6D Mark II, 77D, T7i, T8i).

marycar53 Loc: Tuscumbia Al

I have a 7DMII, and before buying the 5DMVI, had called Tech support about a lens. I mentioned to the guy that I was looking at the 5D and they had 3 versions. He asked what I was shooting, and recommended the regular 5DMVI. I purchased a refurb, and had to send it for repairs as the reason it was returned apparently wasn't fixed. It wouldn't focus in the center, but did around the edges. Now that it's fixed I love it. I have my big lens on it for birding for events, and the shorter lens on the 7DMII.

amfoto1 Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA

Geez! You should be able to do better than that!

While not EOS R, I've used more than a dozen different Canon DSLRs over the years and have gotten pretty good with their AF systems. I shot an equestrian event (amateur Hunter-Jumper show) a couple weeks ago.... almost non-stop action from 8 am to 5 pm: 4400 images. Out of those, there were maybe two dozen where focus was missed... And I'd wager most of those were my own fault, not the camera's or lens'!

Again, I don't have hands-on experience with EOS R, but if it's at all like other Canon AF systems....

1. Are you using AI Servo mode? That's required for moving subjects. It provides continuous focusing and tracking of moving subjects. Can't use One Shot, which stops once focus is achieved. A moving subject will then move out of focus before you can release the shutter. (AI Focus, if EOS R has it, isn't really a focus mode at all. It's automation where the camera is supposed to decide whether a subject is moving or not, then switch to use either AI Servo or One Shot... On other cameras I found AI Focus caused a little delay and didn't always choose correctly.)

2. How many AF points have you got enabled? I try to use as few as possible... only a single AF point much of the time. This makes more work for me, keeping that AF point right where I want the camera & lens to focus... But I also only have myself to blame if I miss focus.

Not that multiple AF points can't be used, too. Sometimes they can. But I always assume there will be more misses, because sometimes the camera will focus with a different point that's over something else, something different from what I wanted.

3. Do you use Back Button Focusing (BBF)? A lot of action shooters prefer it. One of the key advantages is that you can leave the camera in AI Servo mode all the time, use it with both moving and stationary subjects. (Without BBF, AI Servo can be problematic with some stationary shooting techniques.) Might want to give it a try.

4. What lens? There are different focus drive systems... some faster than others.

5. Are your shutter speeds fast enough to prevent camera shake blur (often mistaken for missed focus).

There are a number of online tutorials about using Canon AF systems... I haven't looked, but likely there are some specific to EOS R's system.

You also might upload some of the missed focus shots here, for us to look at. Maybe we can help figure out why that happened. Be sure to check "store original" to "add attachment" with a fairly large JPEG file, with its EXIF data intact.

NOTE: It would probably be best to start another thread specifically addressing your focus issues.

wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado

Just for reference; since the 20MP Olympus E-M1 mkII is capable of 30X40 prints, the Canon 1DX series is also capable of 30X40 prints. Most of the prints that most of us will make will be under that size. Printed images larger than that start showing the fact that they were shot with a smaller pixel camera from a proper viewing distance (which most people disregard and get closer anyway). Extremely large prints do require larger amounts of pixels that some cameras provide. The OP, in my opinion, needs to decide based on how large an image she will produce print wise and then the most likely shooting conditions (lots of low light, less depth of field, better dymanic range, etc.). The larger pixels of a 20MP FF camera will have slightly different results than that of the smaller pixeled 30MP, 40MP, or 5OMP FF cameras.

MikeT9

I’ve shot with a 30D, a7D, a 7Dii, a 5Diii and now a 5Div and a 1DXII. All this talk of crop factor cameras being better than full frame when it comes to Birds and Wildlife is just inaccurate. Just take a picture with a 1DX and the picture lights up. I can’t justify a 1DXiii but my 1DXII is a amazing. A canon 100-400 mkii with or without a 1.4 mkiii extender is superb for walk around photography and put a 500 or 600 on and you’re in another world. Everyone wants their setup to be the best there is and if we can put aside the old rant of it’s not the camera it’s the photographer when it comes to image quality you really do have to accept you get what you pay for.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

hah ! - gonna need some LONG/BIG/HEAVY glass ....and lots of $$$$$......and muscles - and a good monopod and tripod ....

Maybe, hold out for the next iteration of the Canon mirror less ! ?
.

Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA

Thank you for this. It’s also good to hear the 1DXII is as good as you say it is! I just can’t justify a 7k camera with the 1Dx III to take dog photos 90% of the time, but what I DO want is something that works well. This is just getting frustrating that the EOS R is just incredibly noisy in the slightest shade. I expose to the right as much as I can, but my lighting situations usually cause a flat histogram and I just have to deal with it or I’d blow out all of the highlights. I’d prefer CLEAR images where the subject isn’t smoothed out too much due to constant “denoising”.

I LOVE the EOS R in daytime. But with this lower light noise, the pretty bad tracking, and the autofocus that is lightening fast on the first frame, but can’t keep up, is just not what I thought I was getting with this camera.

I’ve got the Tamron 150-600 G2
Canon 70-200 F/2.8 USM III
Canon RF 24-105
Canon 2.8L 100mm macro
Just to name a few, and the results are consistent with all of them. I think I am close to making a jump to either the 5D mark IV or the IDX as a second body to eventually sell my EOS R, but it’s a really tough decision because in comparisons; the 5D mark IV vs the EOS R are basically the same in most categories, which makes me lean towards and IDX OR, wait until the new mirrorless comes out. Tough decisions, but when all I really want to do is wander around and photograph things, it’s discouraging to have to deal with so much noise.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

- with the one caveat - in better light .....
.

imagemeister Loc: mid east Florida

Sark17 Loc: Atlanta, GA

Here’s a question I don’t really understand. If the EOS R and the 5D Mark IV are relatively similar aside from the obvious DSLR/Mirrorless, why is the 5D so much more capable in low light?

They have the same megapixels and same ISO capability, so I don’t understand why the 5D would be so much better? What am I missing?

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

I looked at some of you work from safari. Not all the images where stored with the EXIF data. You might be better served starting a separate discussion on (a) low-light technique and (b) high ISO processing. Your observation about the same sensor is spot on, the 1 to 1 results should be similar, if not indistinguishable between the cameras. I did a sort by ISO in my LR catalog for comparables, but I don't have anything in 2019 / 2020 that really matches based on light and distance looking at your results. You might consider another separate thread based on your dog running results where AF tuning ideas (or limitations) specific to the EOS R might be discussed.