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Virus... A question, perhaps stupid but... (Not a polical thread)
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Apr 27, 2020 10:08:05   #
Rongnongno Loc: FL
 
olemikey wrote:
.../... "It's just my opinion, don't have a cow" !

How about an entire herd?

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 10:16:03   #
DennyT Loc: Central Missouri woods
 
olemikey wrote:
Maybe "Natures Way" of dealing with us, as in what to do with the planet's top predator once the population exceeds the earth's ability to support it (that is where we are now, on the edge or already headed over it), and millions perish every year due a number of things beyond old age....it would not take much for that to become billions.

Nature's Way - a song by the band Spirit - from Twelve Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus - kind of fitting...........

"It's just my opinion, don't have a cow" !
Maybe "Natures Way" of dealing with us, ... (show quote)


That’s close to the way I see it. Not that I think it is “ natures way of dealing with US”, but that it’s nature way of fighting back on the constant attack against it. We continually encroach on nature, cut more trees, clear more habitat , kill more ecosystems.

This is nature way of surviving. Man has never bested nature. Nature always finds a way .

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 10:18:51   #
RainierView Loc: Eatonville, WA
 
11bravo wrote:
All very good, unless you're in that 2%...



Reply
 
 
Apr 27, 2020 10:29:08   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Rongnongno wrote:
How about an entire herd?


And watch out for the bull!!!

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 10:32:48   #
Architect1776 Loc: In my mind
 
Najataagihe wrote:
1. There is no cure for any virus.

2. A vaccine will not prevent you from getting a virus. It will, as you mentioned, HELP the body develop anti-bodies that will reduce the effects of one. It doesn't provide immunity.

3. Annual flu shots to reduce effects are based on what the medical community THINKS is going to be the most prevalent virii that year. Sometimes, they guess wrong.

4. COVID-19 is merely the newest in the family of Corona virii. It was first noticed in 2019, thus the name.

5. Corona virii have been traced to about 8000 years ago, so they have been around a long time.

6. Because it is a virus and can't be killed or contained, you WILL eventually be exposed to it. The current lock down is to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed with patients until they can gear up to handle the load, not prevent anyone from contracting the virus.

7. 98%(!) of those who contract COVID-19 and show symptoms recover fully. We have no idea how many people have contracted the virus and shown no symptoms, at all.

Conclusion: the sky is not falling, no matter what you have heard.
1. There is no cure for any virus. br br 2. A vac... (show quote)



Reply
Apr 27, 2020 10:42:17   #
Bridges Loc: Memphis, Charleston SC, now Nazareth PA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Cure vs vaccine...

To me the cure is more important than a vaccine.
So far it seems that once you get the virus and are cured there is no proof that you will not get it again. WHO is even warning about this.

Than makes me wonder if the vaccine - if one is found - is worth anything. The purpose of a vaccine is to train the body to react against a virus. Seeing the successive warning about being to get it again and again - meaning that the body has not learned to defend itself - what is the point of a vaccine?

Is not a vaccine made to prevent getting ill from the virus by exposing the body to a weakened or dead virus so that it learns from exposure???

If a person who has survived the first round is exposed again and that person's body has not learned anything... What is the point of a corona vaccine???
Cure vs vaccine... br br To me the cure is more i... (show quote)


What is the purpose of a flu vaccine? The problem is that viruses mutate and we are always chasing the latest incarnation and not knowing what it will transform into in the future. That is why flu vaccines are not 100% effective. They offer some protection but not total protection. The same will hold true of Corona. By the time a vaccine is developed it will most likely be out of date and not as effective for the new strain of Corona. It will help in that they will not have to "reinvent the wheel" but will have a starting point that will allow more productive and faster development against the latest strain of the virus.

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 10:55:14   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
Cure vs vaccine...

To me the cure is more important than a vaccine.
So far it seems that once you get the virus and are cured there is no proof that you will not get it again. WHO is even warning about this.

Than makes me wonder if the vaccine - if one is found - is worth anything. The purpose of a vaccine is to train the body to react against a virus. Seeing the successive warning about being to get it again and again - meaning that the body has not learned to defend itself - what is the point of a vaccine?

Is not a vaccine made to prevent getting ill from the virus by exposing the body to a weakened or dead virus so that it learns from exposure???

If a person who has survived the first round is exposed again and that person's body has not learned anything... What is the point of a corona vaccine???
Cure vs vaccine... br br To me the cure is more i... (show quote)


There is more and more chatter about Humoral vs. Cellular immunity in the news so here is a primer on the subject.

Although a retired physician this is a little above my pay grade as they were still calling Tetracycline a wonder drug when I trained!

HTH

Reply
 
 
Apr 27, 2020 11:09:03   #
drobvit Loc: Southern NV
 
Curmudgeon wrote:
Do you have any idea of how many virus infections we can cure today? None, zero, not a one. You can't kill a virus like you can a bacteria or parasite because it is not alive. It is simply a short string of RNA or sometimes DNA. It kind of like a crystal. There are ways to dissociate it, unfortunately those methods also are fatal to the human body. Support the patient and hope the body is able to fight off the infection is all we can do!

Almost all new vaccines are recombinant DNA not attenuated virus.
Do you have any idea of how many virus infections ... (show quote)


👍

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Apr 27, 2020 11:09:20   #
drobvit Loc: Southern NV
 
Najataagihe wrote:
1. There is no cure for any virus.

2. A vaccine will not prevent you from getting a virus. It will, as you mentioned, HELP the body develop anti-bodies that will reduce the effects of one. It doesn't provide immunity.

3. Annual flu shots to reduce effects are based on what the medical community THINKS is going to be the most prevalent virii that year. Sometimes, they guess wrong.

4. COVID-19 is merely the newest in the family of Corona virii. It was first noticed in 2019, thus the name.

5. Corona virii have been traced to about 8000 years ago, so they have been around a long time.

6. Because it is a virus and can't be killed or contained, you WILL eventually be exposed to it. The current lock down is to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed with patients until they can gear up to handle the load, not prevent anyone from contracting the virus.

7. 98%(!) of those who contract COVID-19 and show symptoms recover fully. We have no idea how many people have contracted the virus and shown no symptoms, at all.

Conclusion: the sky is not falling, no matter what you have heard.
1. There is no cure for any virus. br br 2. A vac... (show quote)


👍

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 11:11:39   #
PGHphoto Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Rongnongno wrote:
I am not sure where you are coming from saying a 'vaccine does not work'.

A vaccine expose the body to a weakened or dead virus in order to train the body to fight off the virus if exposed to it later on. The vaccine by itself does not kill, a virus, that is true but the result is the virus is killed by the body. Therefore vaccine work as intended.

Teach a child to swim and hopefully if he falls into the water he survives. A vaccine teaches the body to swim.

To say it does not or never works is grossly misleading. Polio, measles virus vaccines are effective and work by example. Some need to be repeated periodically (booster shot) or even updated but they work.

Something else, a virus can evolve over time, such as the flu. In this case you always or almost always get 'last year' version yet it protects from last year and the previous ones too.

So....

Why are you saying vaccines do not work? I puzzled.
I am not sure where you are coming from saying a '... (show quote)


Vaccines prevent the infection by triggering antibody production in the human body. Most vaccines are not made from 'weakend' or non-viable viruses but by creating a partial 'replica' of virus DNA/RNA so that when the antibody comes into contact with the full RNA/DNA of the virus, it identifies it as a pathogen and encapsulates/destroys it.

The questions are: 1) how long do those antibodies continue to be produced and 2) will the virus mutate like the yearly strains of the flu ?

For certain diseases, the antibody production seems to last a long time maybe even your entire life. It has been demonstrated that tetanus and diphtheria vaccines require a 'booster' vaccine be taken about every 10 years. At this time, the vaccines being developed for COVID are appearing to have somewhat lasting effects in the body and speculation is that the body will continue to produce antibodies for more than 1 year. This is in VERY preliminary results sets but the news from the folks testing the vaccines are promising and they are encouraged.

Mutation is the big worry now. If COVID-19 acts in a similar manner as the flu, we may need to watch every year for the latest strain needing a vaccine. Fortunately, once we have a vaccine, it should be much more easily modified and ready for the current strain. There still is a lot of basic research needed for the coronavirus family in general and also specific to COVID-19. SARS and MERS are 2 illnesses that caused by the coronavirus family that are already under study and may help with future coronavirus strains.

Some interesting reading:
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/how-long-do-vaccines-last-surprising-answers-may-help-protect-people-longer

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Apr 27, 2020 11:22:37   #
SalvageDiver Loc: Huntington Beach CA
 
Rongnongno wrote:


So far it seems that once you get the virus and are cured there is no proof that you will not get it again. WHO is even warning about this.


WHO apparently issued this statement on Friday in their opposition to "immunity passports". On Sunday and after an 'outcry' from the scientific community, they retracted the statement and restated that "there is some level of protection". They just don't know how long it will last, duhhh.

In my opinion, the WHO is trying to lead, but leading from behind. They need to "just present the facts" and leave the policy making to others.

They were also warning about the use of serum antibody test as a means of determining immunity. I would partially agree. The sensitivity and specificity isn't as good as they should be. In the US, the FDA is only approving the best ones (currently 5) under EUA. There are a lot of junk currently out in the marketplace. I would only take a test with an FDA approved device and to improve accuracy, you'll need to take multiple tests.

Reply
 
 
Apr 27, 2020 11:23:08   #
PGHphoto Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Bridges wrote:
What is the purpose of a flu vaccine? The problem is that viruses mutate and we are always chasing the latest incarnation and not knowing what it will transform into in the future. That is why flu vaccines are not 100% effective. They offer some protection but not total protection. The same will hold true of Corona. By the time a vaccine is developed it will most likely be out of date and not as effective for the new strain of Corona. It will help in that they will not have to "reinvent the wheel" but will have a starting point that will allow more productive and faster development against the latest strain of the virus.
What is the purpose of a flu vaccine? The problem... (show quote)


There are a number of vaccines out there in testing now specific to COVID-19 (I specifically am aware of 3 that are in testing right now). So far there is some evidence of mutation but nothing conclusive. Also, need to keep in mind that there are different forms of immune responses in the body and that antibody production may not be the only/best way to deal with the virus. I believe the vaccines in testing right now are all about triggering antibody protections but I only know for certain that is true of the one I am most directly getting information about. Only further research will guide the path

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 11:39:46   #
St.Mary's
 
Us old fuds well remember that little indented circle on everyone's left shoulder. That sure as hell worked. I'll let you younger people figure out what vaccine that was.

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 12:18:04   #
1Feathercrest Loc: NEPA
 
Najataagihe wrote:
1. There is no cure for any virus.

2. A vaccine will not prevent you from getting a virus. It will, as you mentioned, HELP the body develop anti-bodies that will reduce the effects of one. It doesn't provide immunity.

3. Annual flu shots to reduce effects are based on what the medical community THINKS is going to be the most prevalent virii that year. Sometimes, they guess wrong.

4. COVID-19 is merely the newest in the family of Corona virii. It was first noticed in 2019, thus the name.

5. Corona virii have been traced to about 8000 years ago, so they have been around a long time.

6. Because it is a virus and can't be killed or contained, you WILL eventually be exposed to it. The current lock down is to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed with patients until they can gear up to handle the load, not prevent anyone from contracting the virus.

7. 98%(!) of those who contract COVID-19 and show symptoms recover fully. We have no idea how many people have contracted the virus and shown no symptoms, at all.

Conclusion: the sky is not falling, no matter what you have heard.
1. There is no cure for any virus. br br 2. A vac... (show quote)


The sky is NOT falling in spite of the political and media driven hysteria. Annual flu kills more, yet we have become complacent about that.

Reply
Apr 27, 2020 12:30:34   #
kerry12 Loc: Harrisburg, Pa.
 
Najataagihe wrote:
1. There is no cure for any virus.

2. A vaccine will not prevent you from getting a virus. It will, as you mentioned, HELP the body develop anti-bodies that will reduce the effects of one. It doesn't provide immunity.

3. Annual flu shots to reduce effects are based on what the medical community THINKS is going to be the most prevalent virii that year. Sometimes, they guess wrong.

4. COVID-19 is merely the newest in the family of Corona virii. It was first noticed in 2019, thus the name.

5. Corona virii have been traced to about 8000 years ago, so they have been around a long time.

6. Because it is a virus and can't be killed or contained, you WILL eventually be exposed to it. The current lock down is to prevent the medical system from being overwhelmed with patients until they can gear up to handle the load, not prevent anyone from contracting the virus.

7. 98%(!) of those who contract COVID-19 and show symptoms recover fully. We have no idea how many people have contracted the virus and shown no symptoms, at all.

Conclusion: the sky is not falling, no matter what you have heard.
1. There is no cure for any virus. br br 2. A vac... (show quote)



Reply
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