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Getting the country back to work.
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Apr 14, 2020 12:57:52   #
Rusty69 Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 
Cykdelic quoted stats that indicated 44% of deaths were people under age 75. Boberic stated that people under age 70 were less likely to die from the virus. Even allowing for the five year age difference, these are conflicting "facts".
Meanwhile the OP goes off at a tangent talking about road deaths, and so on. Just remember that auto accidents are caused by people behaving stupidly (and voluntarily). Covid deaths can also be exacerbated by other people's stupidity, and even if you don't die, the effects of the infection on long term outcomes are as yet unknown. So stop comparing apples with oranges. We need more data before rushing to re-open our schools and close-proximity businesses. We know how to reduce road deaths (although idiots ignore the cure) but we don't yet know how to fully prevent Covid infection.

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Apr 14, 2020 12:59:11   #
PGHphoto Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
I don't believe that full employment can begin until we get testing under control. Testing, isolation, and traceback. This virus is very infectious and those steps are needed to protect people out among the public.

So the US has done a lot of testing????? Really? How many tests? 100,000? 1,000,000? If we've done a million tests we have only tested 0.3% of the population. Less than that because some have gotten tested more than once. I think we are really in need of a billion tests or more. If we can test, we can limit exposure. And the testing has to be followed up on.

There is just too much about this disease we don't know yet. Will you have immunity if you recover from it? How fast is it likely to mutate (getting it out of possible immunity control)?

If we send everyone back to work without any mitigation measures in place we risk a resurgence, leading to a larger problem than we have now.

If there's one thing that everyone knows about themselves it is that they are an above average driver.
I don't believe that full employment can begin unt... (show quote)


The testing fallacy is that it indicates the person is "well". Testing indicates that there is no virus present at the time of the test. Five seconds later, if the person comes in contact with the virus, the test is invalid. So with testing all measures of isolation must be used post-test including contact with others and contact with potentially affected surfaces and foods. I am not saying testing doesn't help but unless you wrap the person in plastic and make sure anything they ingest is 'clean' you cannot guarantee the infection status of the tested person for very long.

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Apr 14, 2020 13:00:19   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
Bazbo wrote:
I think we should be paying close attention to what happens in both Spain and Italy. If reopening too early proves a mistake, then no reason we should repeat it. On the other hand, if it works out great for them, we should take that lesson too.



...and Austria, Norway, Denmark, the Czech Republic, Sweden, Iowa, both Dakotas......

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Apr 14, 2020 13:03:06   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
Rusty69 wrote:
Cykdelic quoted stats that indicated 44% of deaths were people under age 75. Boberic stated that people under age 70 were less likely to die from the virus. Even allowing for the five year age difference, these are conflicting "facts".
Meanwhile the OP goes off at a tangent talking about road deaths, and so on. Just remember that auto accidents are caused by people behaving stupidly (and voluntarily). Covid deaths can also be exacerbated by other people's stupidity, and even if you don't die, the effects of the infection on long term outcomes are as yet unknown. So stop comparing apples with oranges. We need more data before rushing to re-open our schools and close-proximity businesses. We know how to reduce road deaths (although idiots ignore the cure) but we don't yet know how to fully prevent Covid infection.
Cykdelic quoted stats that indicated 44% of deaths... (show quote)



There’s a clear statistical delineation at 55 years of age.....I don’t think the data really conflicts of the message boberic was trying to send.

Also, there was a blurb yesterday that said of the over 6000 deaths in NY, only 128 had no other u derlying medical issues.

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Apr 14, 2020 13:17:47   #
Rusty69 Loc: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
 
Cykdelic wrote:
There’s a clear statistical delineation at 55 years of age.....I don’t think the data really conflicts of the message boberic was trying to send.

Also, there was a blurb yesterday that said of the over 6000 deaths in NY, only 128 had no other underlying medical issues.


128 is still enough to be worried about. It is in fact 128 too many!

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Apr 14, 2020 13:19:56   #
williejoha
 
That post is one of the biggest BS ever posted on here. I am all for getting back to work, but not at the expense of life’s. I am sure the poster has a degree in BS.
WJH

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Apr 14, 2020 13:28:18   #
CWGordon
 
I chose mine wisely. Very satisfied.

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Apr 14, 2020 13:30:10   #
GeorgeFenwick
 
So, Cykdelic believes that individuals having medical issues don’t count in the mortality statistics somehow? Wow! So having things like diabetes or COPD or high blood pressure or, or, or...all mean that dying with coronavirus should not count in coronavirus data? How very enlightened.

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Apr 14, 2020 13:33:54   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
boberic wrote:
First a few facts, regarding risks. THose undr the age of 70, are at lower risk. The co-morbidities that increase risk are. Vascular disease, Lung Disease, and diabetes. Therefore not having any of those problems further rdeuces risk. As a group if you consider all those reductions of risks, the likelyhood of dying from the virus is something like .02% So, getting back to work need not all at once. Parts of thyeworking public can return to work immediatly. Anothyer part a delay, and the rest after the last delay. In other words , it need not be all at once. Think of it as a light bulb. On all at once or like 3 way bulb. One more thing to consider. Since healthy children are not in any of those high risk groups school can begin immediatly. The death rate from the panic as a result of increased opioid overdose and from suicide in depressives is on the increase as a result of the panic. So we may be entering that time where the cure is worse than the disease..
First a few facts, regarding risks. THose undr th... (show quote)

Not the kids I'm worried about. It is the people they contact that is the concern!

bwa

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Apr 14, 2020 13:37:52   #
PaulBrit Loc: Merlin, Southern Oregon
 
OlinBost wrote:
I totaled a nice 70 Chevy by avoiding hitting someone broadside that pulled out in front of me and stalled his car.


Ouch!

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Apr 14, 2020 13:45:47   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
PGHphoto wrote:
The testing fallacy is that it indicates the person is "well". Testing indicates that there is no virus present at the time of the test. Five seconds later, if the person comes in contact with the virus, the test is invalid. So with testing all measures of isolation must be used post-test including contact with others and contact with potentially affected surfaces and foods. I am not saying testing doesn't help but unless you wrap the person in plastic and make sure anything they ingest is 'clean' you cannot guarantee the infection status of the tested person for very long.
The testing fallacy is that it indicates the perso... (show quote)


That means that more frequent testing is necessary. 3 million tests is only 1% of the population tested once. We need a billion tests, probably more.

If we are going to open up the economy again we absolutely need testing to ensure that the workers are not going to infect the customers and vice versa. And in addition to testing we need to trace the contacts to try to put the tests in the right places, and make sure infected people are quarantined.

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Apr 14, 2020 14:17:13   #
clint f. Loc: Priest Lake Idaho, Spokane Wa
 
My idaho friends working in construction are doing business as usual with heightened social distancing. Building inspectors seem to have the authority to halt a project if he sees a problem. Paycheck every Friday. My Washington friends are sitting home wondering how they will be able to pay their rent, it’s spring and the money saved to get through the winter is used up. 20 miles apart. I am in the at risk group I take precautions. I don’t depend on anyone else to assure I’m not infected. We need to quarantine the at risk and intelligently get people back to work. Testing and treatment/immunization will come but hiding under your bed seems kind of paranoid if you can take ordinary precautions. People are starting to push back, Michigan, because of draconian rules unlinked from science. Three or four people practicing social distancing while walking on an empty road or a group of parishioners sitting in closed cars at their church watching their pastor speak on the radio, Or a lone surfer in the ocean should not be a nationwide controversy.

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Apr 14, 2020 14:32:13   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
"school can begin immediatly."???

Are you kidding? Schools are colloquially referred to as large Petrie dishes.

boberic wrote:
First a few facts, regarding risks. THose undr the age of 70, are at lower risk. The co-morbidities that increase risk are. Vascular disease, Lung Disease, and diabetes. Therefore not having any of those problems further rdeuces risk. As a group if you consider all those reductions of risks, the likelyhood of dying from the virus is something like .02% So, getting back to work need not all at once. Parts of thyeworking public can return to work immediatly. Anothyer part a delay, and the rest after the last delay. In other words , it need not be all at once. Think of it as a light bulb. On all at once or like 3 way bulb. One more thing to consider. Since healthy children are not in any of those high risk groups school can begin immediatly. The death rate from the panic as a result of increased opioid overdose and from suicide in depressives is on the increase as a result of the panic. So we may be entering that time where the cure is worse than the disease..
First a few facts, regarding risks. THose undr th... (show quote)

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Apr 14, 2020 14:34:04   #
michaelsinger
 
Funny, you sound like Donald Trump and that doesn't sound good. Testing,testing, testing. is the only way to get a handle on this pandemic. And he lies about how much we are doing. That's what the scientists say. Your logic is just that logic disconnected from the real world, just like our president. Your suggestions about who can and who shouldn't go back to work will only bring us a new wave of disease. China which loosened the quarenteen is now reporting new cases. WHAT A SURPRISE!!!! What you are spreading is silly if it weren't so deadly. Stop it. Stay home and please stop these half-truths which will only cause more pain.

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Apr 14, 2020 16:11:50   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
michaelsinger wrote:
Funny, you sound like Donald Trump and that doesn't sound good. Testing,testing, testing. is the only way to get a handle on this pandemic. And he lies about how much we are doing. That's what the scientists say. Your logic is just that logic disconnected from the real world, just like our president. Your suggestions about who can and who shouldn't go back to work will only bring us a new wave of disease. China which loosened the quarenteen is now reporting new cases. WHAT A SURPRISE!!!! What you are spreading is silly if it weren't so deadly. Stop it. Stay home and please stop these half-truths which will only cause more pain.
Funny, you sound like Donald Trump and that doesn'... (show quote)


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