Exposure Triangle or Light Value Triangle? (Page 7): I've learned from you, Joe, and I appreciate that... :sm24:...

srt101fan

Ysarex wrote:

That has been the correct definition for far longe... (show quote)

I've learned from you, Joe, and I appreciate that...

srt101fan

selmslie wrote:

No, most of that is opinion and misinformation.

I have read a lot of your "debates" but I don't remember any time when you proved Ysarex wrong!?

Bullfrog Bill Loc: CT

selmslie wrote:

I seldom use the camera's meter because it can make mistakes.

You spend $2-3,000 for a camera and don't use the meter because it makes mistakes; maybe it is the operator making the mistakes.

CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska

Ysarex wrote:

DUH! You didn't just say there's a relationship between exposure and ISO did you? How can you talk about them like they're two separate things when the ET teaches us that ISO is one of the three exposure variables? Sure you're not confused? You sound confused.

Joe

Of course there is a relationship between ISO and exposure. And they are two separate things. One, ISO, relates to the sensitivity of your medium. The other relates more to amount of light present. I don't understand where your reply to this is coming from. Read it three times and still doesn't seem to make sense.
...Cam

CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska

User ID wrote:

No meter has ever ... ever ! ... made a mistake. No hammer, no paint brush, no slide rule, no stove etc etc makes mistakes. They are not smart enuf.

Of course meters make mistakes. They are only reading the light. They have no ability to think and apply that reading to the thoughts and hopes of the photographer. We override and adjust the exposures all the time because of those mistakes. I don't trust my meter. To expose many of my subjects, what it tells me is 'right' is really wrong.
...Cam

CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska

BebuLamar wrote:

You have your way and it certainly works well for you. My criticism of the triangle is that it has nothing to do with determining the exposure. Scotty used his sunny 16 method. You use the histogram. Someone uses the spotmeter. Some use ETTR technique. None has anything to do with the triangle. The triangle comes into play only after one uses one of the above method to determine the exposure needed.

I like this answer. The triangle is about options, not exposure. It is not a light meter.
...Cam

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Bullfrog Bill wrote:

You spend $2-3,000 for a camera and don't use the meter because it makes mistakes; maybe it is the operator making the mistakes.

When I was starting out with SLRs a half century ago I used the built-in meters. I learned about film as I graduated to middle and large format.

The more I learned the less I had to rely on the camera's meter. By the time I got to digital imaging I had pretty much weaned myself.

My 500 C/M Hasselblads don't have a meter. My Rolleiflex 2.8F has a meter that I don't use. I don't use the meter on my Leica M6.

I use my Df and D610 in full manual. I seldom look at the meter or histogram but I watch for blinkies.

With my A7 II I use the Zebra warnings which are more useful than the camera's meter or histogram.

When I want more than 24MP (almost never) I stitch together a panorama. It gives me more resolution and more sharpness that I could get from a single $10,000 camera with an $8,000 lens, not to mention the enormous price of a medium format digital kit.

I have saved a lot of money on some of these cameras by getting them used from KEH.

I save a lot more by learning about photography from something other than a camera's manual or spec sheet - more from experience than from reading books.

srt101fan

CamB wrote:

Of course meters make mistakes. They are only reading the light. They have no ability to think and apply that reading to the thoughts and hopes of the photographer. We override and adjust the exposures all the time because of those mistakes. I don't trust my meter. To expose many of my subjects, what it tells me is 'right' is really wrong.
...Cam

If you hit your thumb with a hammer, do you say the hammer made a mistake? 😕

CamB Loc: Juneau, Alaska

srt101fan wrote:

If you hit your thumb with a hammer, do you say the hammer made a mistake? 😕

At that moment I blame it on everything, the hammer, the job, the dogs. Not a pretty sight.
...Cam

srt101fan

selmslie wrote:

When I was starting out with SLRs a half century a... (show quote)

I suspect you are very limited in your photographic range, mostly outdoors scenery in good weather, is that right? I may be totally wrong, but it might explain why you don't need meters when most photographers use them.

Do you do any street photography, closeups/macro, tabletop, portraits, copywork, product, sports, etc?

srt101fan

CamB wrote:

At that moment I blame it on everything, the hammer, the job, the dogs. Not a pretty sight.
...Cam

Ha, ha, I know the feeling!

User ID

CamB wrote:

Of course meters make mistakes. They are only reading the light. They have no ability to think .....
...Cam

That which cannot think cannot make mistakes. Look it up !

User ID

srt101fan wrote:

I suspect you are very limited in your photographic range, mostly outdoors scenery in good weather, is that right? I may be totally wrong, but it might explain why you don't need meters when most photographers use them.

?

You’re a good guesser but to confirm your suspicions just visit his site.

He’s a technician and knows how to seek out optimum conditions. Do visit ... especially if you like car shows and vacation pix neatly conventionally composed and shot in favorable light.
What could possibly go wrong ?

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

srt101fan wrote:

I suspect you are very limited in your photographic range, mostly outdoors scenery in good weather, is that right? I may be totally wrong, but it might explain why you don't need meters when most photographers use them.

Do you do any street photography, closeups/macro, tabletop, portraits, copywork, product, sports, etc?

If you look at my web site you will see that the majority of my images are outdoors but not always in good weather and not always in daytime.

For my indoor images I use an incident meter because it is very difficult to judge illumination without one. Only one image involved flash.

As I state on my About page, "Most images dated earlier than July, 2015, were taken on film with a variety of cameras and formats – small (24x36 mm), medium (6x6 and 6x7 cm) and large (4x5 inches). Since then most of the color images are digital."

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

CamB wrote:

Of course there is a relationship between ISO and exposure. And they are two separate things. One, ISO, relates to the sensitivity of your medium. The other relates more to amount of light present. I don't understand where your reply to this is coming from.

You'd have to dig back through too many exchanges to follow and it's not worth it. Yes they're related and yes they're two separate things.

The issue was whether ISO is a determinant of exposure. And it is not -- determinant and related are two different things.

Joe