JohnR Loc: The Gates of Hell

Is the reality you see the same reality I see ???

berchman Loc: South Central PA

The thing itself is not a thing; it is an ιδέα (usually translated as a Form in Plato's writings). Portraits are not lies; they are our opinion, (doxa in Plato) of what the person looks like. Plato would have us think about individuality, personality, appearance, reflections--all the notions underlying doing a portrait of someone. (Before I retired I taught the junk discipline of sociology using Plato, Wittgenstein and Heidegger, among others.)

davidrb Loc: Half way there on the 45th Parallel

Another way of saying "Figures don't lie, but liars do figure."

Stephan G

ιδέα = Concept

Idea

issa2006.

This is a very bright group of folks. Thanks for your thoughts.

Toby

I beg to differ. Anyone that is/was in business or tried to convince/sell others knows, perception is reality, regardless of how it comes about.

srt101fan

Mugshots are portraits.....😕

ggab Loc: ?

Plato needs to retire to his cave!

ggab Loc: ?

Yes, however you can change someone's perception. They call it "SPIN".

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

Perhaps it's the pandemic and the resulting isolation that is brought on all this psychological negativity or frankly psychobabble. Since I have been making portraits, mostly for a living, all my life, here's my take.

Portraits, pictures, paintings, images, photographs (whatever you want to call them) of people are not meant to be clones, replications, reasonable facsimiles, fake or artificial reconstructions of actual human beings. They are just documents, artists' impressions, abstractions, records, or graphic memorizations of people. Of course, they are not "real" but the can be realistic or possibly distorted or altered.

Photographers are no necessarily liers that spend their time creating disingenuous images of people but if you need to take a negative approach you could say that most of the folks who sit before our lenses are liers! How many folks are truly authentic in appearance. They smear all kinds of cosmetics on their faces, apply harsh dyes, and bleaches to the hair, some of which are toxic, the apply coaltar dyes substances to the lips and near their eye and if that is not effective enough, the subject themselves to injections, tatoo-like applications of theses cosmetics, and dangerous and expensive surgeries. They starve themselves to be fashionable, wear undergarments that impeded their circulation, just to "look better" and again, if that is insufficient, they have their fat surgically sucked out of their bodies! They get up every morning and take razor blades to the skin to remove hair from wherein naturally grows and if they haven't got enough hair the buy some or have it surgically implanted. Some folks even bleach their teeth!

So...the people show up at the portrait studio and in many cases want the photographer to create all the aforementioned results without their having gone through much of the pain and procedures. If the can't apply their own makeup or style their own hair to their specifications, the engage the services of other professionals to do the work- are these professionals aiding and abiding the lies?

Not all portrait styles are "cosmetic"- I ask my clients if they want a flattering image or a portrait-"study"- kinda letting it all hang out warts and all- I get very few takes for the latter. People want to be perceived, in a portrait in many ways- beautiful, attractive, handsome, dignified, tough, honest, wise, aggressive, dynamic, shy, compassionate, innocent, whatever! Some, in reality, have theses personally and physical traits- some don't,- so they want us to lie- but they don't use that word. Believe me, after half a century in portraiture,
and listening to the complaints of customers and other photographers I can tell y'all that when folks don't like or are disappointed in their portraits their criticism is usually NOT on photographic craftsmanship- lighting, composition or technical glitches like diffraction, etc, the just DON'T LIKE THE WAY THEY LOOK!

Y'all that are always complaining about too much skin retouching and plastic-like results- that is the result of inapt retouching- if the work is too obvious it is not well crafted.

I have had clients who insisted that every portrait and wedding picture must be made in FULL LENGTH because they viewed 3/4 and closeup portraits as "cutting people in half or cutting their legs off". Technically, anything other than a full-length portrait is an ABSTRACTION.

Regardless of all of my opinions, each photographer can make portraits as they see fit. There are digital gear and macro lenses that enable the recording of near-microscopic detail as never before. If you want to make "portraits" that look like medical documentation of dermatological conditions, I can tell you how to do that. I can also show you how to create fantnciy-like and romantic portraits. I can show you how to "lie" or tell the truth or perhaps somewhere in between.

Are you a documentarian, fantasist, photojournalist, a scientific photographic specialist, a professional photographer or an amateur? I try no to superimpose of any of these areas on the others. Do you work in photography for your own edification or do you work at the behest of the pleasure of others? All of
these questions and answers have to do with what you do or have to do.

Hopefully, when the pandemic is over we can all go back to actually taking or making pictures instead of just talking about that.

Be well, be safe!

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Depends on your political party today...

(Joking, sort of.)

User ID

Exactly

Some researchers find that our interpretation of what we see is anywhere from 50 to 90% memory ... interpretation meaning actually what we.take for granted as our plain sight ... NOT some thoughts we might have about things we see

IOW we see inward more than outward and at times nearly completely inward with only slightest new retinal input added to our vision of what’s before our eyes

Rongnongno Loc: FL

No one has called anyone a liar.

The observation is that portrait are a series of events that promote a fake image of how one wants to be seen, how one interprets this desire and finally how the final viewer really see the portrait.

None of this is dishonest, it is just the reality.

You are taking this way too literally.

Same as folks going to mass in their 'sunday best'. They put up a show, it is basically 'required' to be accepted.

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

No artist ever sees things only as the camera would. If he did, he would cease to be an artist.

User ID

The reality we both look upon is the same

What we see as we look upon it is peculiar to each of us

I avoided the word “see” very much intentionally so as to answer you more clearly