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More on Pandemics and Corona Virus
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Mar 12, 2020 14:38:54   #
andesbill
 
SMPhotography wrote:
But calling me a liar with zero proof is ok if it is coming from a liberal, right? Are you through, my, my you like to hear yourself talk, don't you?

And calling his images pedestrian and mediocre given the level of the photography on this site is merely a statement of fact.


I never saw his photos, and have no idea who you are quoting.
I’m even more hated than a liberal. I’m a moderate. It depends on the subject and the policies. I like mine fact based.
When I talk, or write, unlike you I use unbiased facts. You however, see conspiracies where none exist- at least regarding this pandemic.
And, you still have not responded to my question of whether you believe that all the CDC and WHO doctors, as well as their equivalents in every other nation on Earth are lying or just wrong about the nature of this Pandemic. Do you seriously want to debate this? You can’t win. The facts aren't on your side.

You shot your mouth off (metaphorically speaking) before you had a chance to really consider the facts, especially globally.

You may find it interesting to know that the Chinese workers in the NY nail salon my daughter goes to have their own conspiracy theory- they think that COVID19 is a virus that broke out of a bioweapons lab in China.
It didn’t, it happened like every other major viral pandemic- a virus jumped from an animal (almost certainly a bat in this case) to humans.
It may not have been anyone’s fault, and it certainly wasn’t Trump’s fault, though he should have handled the early communications better.
Wilson in WWI was far worse. He prevented any and all communications about the disease as he was afraid that it might hurt the war effort. So 675,000 Americans died, more than died in WWI, or even the Civil War.

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Mar 12, 2020 15:25:37   #
traderjohn Loc: New York City
 
SMPhotography wrote:
I never said that MD's in the CDC and WHO were lying, cite the passage where I said that. But the core of what I DID say is that the leftist media and prominent democrats in this country are using this significant Public Health Threat as a weapon against this Administration, and anyone who reads and listens to multiple news outlets can see that. Unless you are a willfully blind liberal.

I apologize, I though I saw photos by you. But if you are on a photography forum and never post photos, what is the point?
I never said that MD's in the CDC and WHO were lyi... (show quote)


OK....kindergarten is over for the day. Your mommies are waiting for you.

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Mar 12, 2020 15:45:53   #
DocDav Loc: IN
 
traderjohn wrote:
OK....kindergarten is over for the day. Your mommies are waiting for you.


Well said.

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Mar 12, 2020 16:09:03   #
andesbill
 
SMPhotography wrote:
I never said that MD's in the CDC and WHO were lying, cite the passage where I said that. But the core of what I DID say is that the leftist media and prominent democrats in this country are using this significant Public Health Threat as a weapon against this Administration, and anyone who reads and listens to multiple news outlets can see that. Unless you are a willfully blind liberal.

I apologize, I though I saw photos by you. But if you are on a photography forum and never post photos, what is the point?
I never said that MD's in the CDC and WHO were lyi... (show quote)


Here’s my take on the position of most Trumpers. You seem to feel that this President should be above criticism. You forget about the attacks against Obama, Bush(both), Reagan, Carter, all Presidents really. It goes with the job. Especially in times of crisis. The Democrats were right to call out Trump on Puerto Rico for Maria.
The Republicans had every right to call out Obama and Clinton for their failure in Libya.

Ok, so what does a leadership role look like for COVID19? As soon as he knew that it could have been a problem, he should have appointed a nonpartisan czar, and told him/her to appoint a team from both the health care side and financial side. Have them communicate on a regular basis with him and with the house and senate.
He should then tell the czar that what he asks for, he gets, and then step out of the way. Tell congress that after the crisis there will be an impartial investigation to determine what was done right, and what needs to improve in the future. But no tweets, no interviews, no Monday morning quarterbacking.
Trump would get immense credit for all of it, and zero criticism. I would have cheered him for doing this, I bet you would have as well.
He couldn’t keep his foot out of his mouth, he wants to take credit for slowing down it’s apparent arrival in the US, while blaming others when things don’t go his way. And so he deserves criticism for everything that goes wrong in our response to the virus. I even get to blame him if my toast comes out too dark. That is the American way.
Look, just do your best to avoid getting the virus.

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Mar 12, 2020 17:51:35   #
cochese
 
I do not concern myself with what is going on globally as it relates to OUR country.

Says all we need to hear. Bury yoir head backnin the sand and stop blowing your TRUMPet.

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Mar 12, 2020 19:42:13   #
Daryls Loc: Waco, TX
 
andesbill wrote:
We’ve only tested about a thousand people. They’ve tested far more. We have no idea how many Americans actually have the disease. Besides, give it time, watch the numbers double and redouble. Watch your or your neighbors’ grandparents come down with it and die.


Andesbill,

I agree that the number of people infected with the virus will increase as we test more Americans. That increase in numbers will then cause the fatality rate of the virus to go way down. That will mean the virus is less deadly then is being reported now. And if some of the experts are correct in their assumptions, the death rate will be much less than the common flu virus. Time will tell who is correct.

Daryl

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Mar 12, 2020 20:20:33   #
Daryls Loc: Waco, TX
 
SMPhotography wrote:
Part of that is true, but you also have to realize that there are dozens of strains of flu A/B that could be present during any flu season. Over time, all viruses undergo a process known as "antigenic drift". Our immune system mounts defenses against an virus based on certain proteins on it's capsule (or non-capsule, depending on the virus). Viruses, and even some bacteria, have the ability to change those protein antigens, either through random mutations or other processes, which are outside the scope of this discussion. Eventually the change may be of sufficient magnitude that the vaccine "key" no longer fits their viral "lock" and the vaccine is ineffective. It is a process that has evolved and continues to evolve since the very beginning.
Part of that is true, but you also have to realize... (show quote)


Yes SMPhotography. Those daughter strains are what made the 1918 pandemic so deadly. That and the fact that the virus could kill its host and still survive/duplicate because it had infected so many young and fit soldiers around the world. The large number of virus combinations, coupled with the RNA mutations in each reproduction, makes the vaccines ineffective and we have to adapt to each virus' mutation that impacts humans. It delays the release of effective vaccines until the right combination is discovered all over again.

Daryl

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Mar 12, 2020 20:23:59   #
Daryls Loc: Waco, TX
 
Cykdelic wrote:
SOME flu strains have a vaccine.


And the CDC, FDA, and manufacturers are working diligently trying to find the right "mix" for a COVID-19 vaccine. We should have one ready for distribution in 6 to 12 months, which is a fast to normal timeframe.

Daryl

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Mar 12, 2020 20:32:28   #
Daryls Loc: Waco, TX
 
neillaubenthal wrote:
From a very personal aspect…you're correct. However…in the broad population aspect it hardly the Black Death. Each of us would be affected if someone we know personally or are related to dies…but that individual grief doesn't equate to the mass panic that most of the media and politicians are shrieking about.

The OP is also correct in that the media in the US…which even liberals will admit is pretty left leaning…and the Democrat party are using this as a political weapon and overhyping it to damage the reelection prospects of the President…and that is simply wrong. Run on your policy proclamations and against the President's record and policies if you like…but neither side should resort to cheap political tricks. Unfortunately…now that looney tunes Sanders is out of the picture and it looks like it will be Biden vs Trump in the fall…both sides will go as low as they can go in order to influence the election; that's what politics in the 2000s has descended to. There's no such thing as cooperation, no such thing as compromise, and no such thing as seeing that the other side has some valid points…nah, it's all me, me, me and my way or the highway.
From a very personal aspect…you're correct. Howeve... (show quote)


neillaubenthal,

What is occurring over the last 20 years in our political system is very similar to the way it was during Washington's second term and prior to, during and following Lincoln's terms as president. Then we had a Civil War and America survived. We will survive this divisive times too. Have some faith in America. Regardless of how bad it might look, there is no better plae on Earth or a better society to live under than America. We are truly God' children.

Daryl

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Mar 12, 2020 21:28:04   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
Well, he's done it again. The President has made numerous statements over the last two days about all that is being done..... and his own party, GOP Senators are calling him out on it. They are making public statements that it simply is not happening the he describes. That didn't come from the left, it came from the right, and is being reported on many TV neyworks/channels as well as internet. I'll say no more about it, it is being said for me, to the public.

Not made up, watched it from many legitimate venues.

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Mar 13, 2020 08:08:22   #
JDG3
 
SMPhotography wrote:
This is my take on the evil, soon to wipe out all of mankind, coronavirus. And I spent the last 20 years as a clinical microbiologist so I am speaking from experience, not just through my butt like so many other "experts" have done. This whole "pandemic" thing is utter nonsense, most especially in this country. To date there have been less than 30 deaths from this virus. Compare and contrast to the Flu A/B virus mortality this year, which is now exceeding TWELVE THOUSAND by the latest CDC estimates. It does not take a masters level microbiologist like myself to figure out which is the far more pressing Public Health Threat. It is pure baseless Chicken Little hysteria.

And this is just my opinion, your may mileage may vary, but had this not been an election year, with huge implications at stake, this "pandemic viral infection" would have been barely mentioned. Regardless of what the talking heads on the Clown News Network tell you, coronavirus is NOT new. It was first isolated 40+ years ago and was most recently (before now) implicated in SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome) over 17 years ago as well as MERS (Middle East Respiratory Syndrome. And there are numerous strains of coronavirus, the discussion of which is outside the scope of this forum. I could go into great detail but I would probably put myself to sleep. The left are using this "pandemic" as a weapon against President Trump's administration, which for someone who was in healthcare as long as I was, is simply beyond the pale. But never let a good crisis go to waste, even if you have to manufacture one. And much to my disgust, the CDC is falling right in line with it. Treatment of diseases should NEVER be political. The President was quick and decisive in actions to minimize the spread of this infection. President Trump could singlehandedly eradicate cancer in an afternoon and the left and totally disingenuous "media" would still brutally criticize him.

So what to do to minimize infection? First and foremost, use good hand washing technique and wash your hands frequently and use hand sanitizer. This virus can be viable outside the human body for up to 24 hours. If you use the rest room, wash your hands thoroughly and use a paper towel to open the doorknob. Try to keep your hands away from your mouth and nose as much as possible. If you are feeling ill and especially if you are febrile, STAY HOME. If you are sick and must venture out, wear a surgical mask, available at any CVS to contain any and all droplets expelled by coughing or sneezing. This is the main mechanism of spreading it. Maintain at least 8 feet between people who are actively coughing and/or sneezing and look at what they may touch and avoid it. Common sense prevails.
This is my take on the evil, soon to wipe out all ... (show quote)



I think that you, our great dear leader, Trump, the self described medical savant, and his buddy Rush Limbaugh are DEAD wrong on this one. This virus is serious and we are far behind the curve in combating it here in the US. Experts in the CDC and other government have been tracking this virus for months and warning that it could get deadly, but they were ignored, silenced or dismissed from their jobs. Essentially nothing was done until it was here in the US and entrenched. Trump and Limbaugh, were telling everyone that Covid-19 was just like a cold, was nothing to be concerned about and was just something made up by the media to make him look bad. So, nothing was done, no preparations were made.

Trump, as always, pretending to know all, tried his best to "tweet" away the threat and blame the evil Democrats and the evil left media. He tried his best to convince everyone that things were great and soon would be "tremendous" and wonderful again. Trump being Trump, silenced, ignored or dismissed his real experts, disabled the mechanisms inside the government that would have organized efforts to fight the coming pandemic and all the while pretended he knew more than everyone around him about what was best.

Now that the markets are falling while sports activities, schools and many other public activities all over the US are being delayed, closed or canceled, the delay, false optimism and refusal to admit there was a problem will come home to roost.

While Trump did not cause the virus, his lack of leadership abilities to lead the country out of the crisis is on center stage. Tweets and blaming the media or the Democrats will not do it.

Oh by the way, before you dismiss me as a leftist liberal democrat. I am a lifelong conservative Republican, retired military with 26 years of service, a master's in engineering, AND an EX-Trump supporter.

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Mar 13, 2020 10:16:43   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
Allie wrote:
That’s far too political to be even rational. Let’s all just listen to what the medical doctors are telling us to do.


Uh.....that’s what’s happening.

Are you watching the daily news conferences from the Corona team?

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Mar 13, 2020 10:20:10   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
andesbill wrote:
You SMphotography are a liar.
If you really were a microbiologist, you would know that COVID19 is a novel virus, one to which humans have never been exposed. This is much more like the 1918 flu pandemic, which killed between 50 and 100 million people, and nothing like this year’s flu epidemic.
For one thing you would know that we have both an effective vaccine against the flu, as well as a somewhat effective antiviral (Tamiflu), while besides the fact that no human as any immunity to COVID19, there is no vaccine, and no antiviral.
The people that know what they are talking about, unlike you, who insist on putting out dangerous misinformation, are preparing for a once in a century viral outbreak. We might have been more prepared, had Trump not disbanded the group that was tasked with preparing us for just this situation.

It doesn’t take a genius to know that a devastating hurricane is heading our way. We can’t know both where and when, but we can prepare for the worst. It’s the same with deadly pandemics. We know they will be heading our way, even if we don’t know which virus or when. We can mitigate it, and that’s what our government is doing, although we should have done better, and we may have to do more.

If there are enough people who think as you do, we are more likely to fulfill the CDC’s and WHO’s worst nightmares- 70-150 million infected Americans, 10-30 million hospitalizations, (we only have 1 million beds, and 600,000 are taken at any given time, and there are only 60,000 intubators) over 500,000 deaths. Maybe much more.
Any real microbiologist would have taken a course in epidemiology, and would know and understand those numbers. No microbiologist would or has used the word “think” when talking about a Pandemic.
We stand to lose a lot of grandparents, and elderly parents. The least you can do is avoid passing lies which other likeminded fools will believe, thus making this enfolding tragedy even worse.

BTW- It is more likely than not, that there will be a second wave of virus outbreak in the fall, as there was in the 1918 Pandemic.

All of you- take sensible precautions. Act as if it’s all around you- as a precaution. Stay safe. Protect our parents and grandparents, even if we ourselves are safe.
You SMphotography are a liar. br If you really w... (show quote)



The mere fact that you keep referring to the 1918 Spanish flu as a comparison shows you don’t know jackshit and are just trying to gin up an argument.

It is then proven by your series of lies and misinformation,

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Mar 13, 2020 10:20:47   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
andesbill wrote:
We’ve only tested about a thousand people. They’ve tested far more. We have no idea how many Americans actually have the disease. Besides, give it time, watch the numbers double and redouble. Watch your or your neighbors’ grandparents come down with it and die.


Sounds like your hoping, hater!

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Mar 13, 2020 10:26:12   #
Cykdelic Loc: Now outside of Chiraq & Santa Fe, NM
 
DocDav wrote:
SMP. You're wrong. And yes, I understand virology. This is currently a pandemic with the ability to cause a lot of deaths. Trump did handle it poorly at first as he refused to listen to his medical advisers. I would never weaponize a deadly pandemic as a political weapon. I will however, and rightfully so, weaponize stupid responses to it as a reason to vote someone out. I consider stupid responses to be, but not inclusive of all potentialities: Dont worry, it will be mild. Calm down. We will have a vaccine in a couple weeks. It will go away with warm weather. These and others are ignorant statements whether made by a republican or a democrat. In this case, they were made by our President. I am right to use his words against him. You are wrong. The pandemic is nature. The responses are of man. Therefore, the responses ARE political and can be viewed that way. As an aside, calling others stupid and poor photographers reduces you to ad hominems. People resort to those when they don't have anything better to argue.
SMP. You're wrong. And yes, I understand virolog... (show quote)



Please....provide all of this proof that Trump didn’t listen to the medical advisors. I suspect you’re confusing his saying he would do it differently as he let THEM make the decisions.

Yes, your posts sound pretty damn partisan.

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