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School dance photo shoot and what I learned...
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Mar 2, 2020 07:52:46   #
donrosshill Loc: Delaware & Florida
 
Good Job.
Don

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Mar 2, 2020 08:17:32   #
Adamborz
 
donrosshill wrote:
Good Job.
Don


Thank you sir.

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Mar 2, 2020 09:32:54   #
farwest Loc: Utah
 
burkphoto wrote:
I've seen this sort of story before, *without* a happy ending. Congrats on getting it done well! It's hard to create a methodology from scratch.

I worked in the school portrait industry most of my career, and trained photographers as one of my nine jobs in it. Imagine photographing 430 school students and teachers in the morning, then photographing classroom groups or sports teams in the afternoon, 4-5 days a week! We had to be organized. We had the collective knowledge of about 90 years of industry knowledge from thousands of photographers to work with.

We had both individual and group portraiture down to a science. It was all very database driven. The camera was tethered to a laptop for individuals. Every image was linked to order and subject data with a proprietary application. We printed a report at end of day, telling the principal exactly what we pre-sold, how much cash we collected, and total credit card receipts. It also estimated the school commission.

The same app was used semi-manually to link group images to data and orders.

The entire process was automated, from agreement/contract entry, to photography, to lab submission, to production, to shipping and billing.

The iPhone/Android, digital cameras in parents' hands, the Internet, and social media sharing sites have nearly killed off that industry. Most of the industry players sold their businesses to Lifetouch, and then Lifetouch sold to Shutterfly. Very few mothers want prints these days, and very few value digital files well enough to pay $20 for them. Photography has been democratized.
I've seen this sort of story before, *without* a h... (show quote)


Your right about the iPhone/Android phones. I had a parent show me a picture from my smugmug account on his phone of his son kicking the football with my watermark across the front of it. Teenagers will take a picture of your photo of them from the computer monitor and be happy with it. I'm getting away from posting on my smugmug site as it is to much work culling, editing for the little amount of sales I get. Most parents are happy to get a picture of them with their kid with a iPhone after the game or event.

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Mar 2, 2020 09:53:27   #
Adamborz
 
farwest wrote:
Your right about the iPhone/Android phones. I had a parent show me a picture from my smugmug account on his phone of his son kicking the football with my watermark across the front of it. Teenagers will take a picture of your photo of them from the computer monitor and be happy with it. I'm getting away from posting on my smugmug site as it is to much work culling, editing for the little amount of sales I get. Most parents are happy to get a picture of them with their kid with a iPhone after the game or event.
Your right about the iPhone/Android phones. I had ... (show quote)


It’s a shame really, the quality of professional photos compared to a cell pic is night and day. These kids deserve a nice picture... but the parents don’t think they need photographers with “real equipment”. I’m not bashing cell phones, he’ll I take pics with mine. But it’s still not the same as using professional equipment.

Some parents were taking pictures with their phone of my setup. I said “you do realize I’ll send you a free picture?” They showed me their crooked, dark and blurry phone pic and were happy.

To each their own...

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Mar 2, 2020 09:56:42   #
Adamborz
 
I think if more “photographers” would do this sort of event and show the public what real photos look like, maybe they’d want better photos.

On a side note, I’m getting inquires about adding the school logo and their names like in “The Brenners” above. Might make a few bucks after all...

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Mar 2, 2020 11:12:50   #
Earnest Botello Loc: Hockley, Texas
 
Great set, Adam.

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Mar 2, 2020 11:14:03   #
woodweasel Loc: bellingham Wa
 
👏👏👏

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Check out Professional and Advanced Portraiture section of our forum.
Mar 2, 2020 11:19:32   #
Adamborz
 
Earnest Botello wrote:
Great set, Adam.


Thanks

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Mar 2, 2020 11:19:54   #
Adamborz
 
Thanks

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Mar 2, 2020 17:51:32   #
Manglesphoto Loc: 70 miles south of St.Louis
 
Adamborz wrote:
Softer? The key light is a 36” soft box with 2 diffusers... the the fill (speed light) is just going through an umbrella so I could get a better diffuser for that (actually should have just placed on floor without stand because it showed in some kids glasses). Didn’t have time to adjust lights for each person. This was a very rapidly paced photo shoot.

Are you saying different lights or different diffusers? I used both at TTL and just adjusted with comp to dial them separately. I tried to use the approach, expose to right, but like I said didn’t like the JPEGs at all. I luckily shoot in RAW so could recover the details...

Thanks for the comment. I’m trying to learn which is why I posted.
Softer? The key light is a 36” soft box with 2 di... (show quote)

Maybe a bigger soft box, as I recall I used a 48" octobox double diffused.

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Mar 2, 2020 18:25:38   #
Adamborz
 
Manglesphoto wrote:
Maybe a bigger soft box, as I recall I used a 48" octobox double diffused.



I’d need a collapsible one for sure lol the one I have now barely fits in my truck. I’ll take it under advisement, but I’m definitely not going to “expose to the right” on portraits any more.

Thanks for all the comments guys/ gals..

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Check out Close Up Photography section of our forum.
Mar 2, 2020 18:29:20   #
Adamborz
 
woodweasel wrote:
👏👏👏


Oops missed the quote reply above.. thanks.

I actually really enjoyed taking these photos and going through them to email them to the people.

It was a little frustrating trying to decipher the handwriting at times, but the look on the kid’s faces as they were posing was priceless.

They’d all run over to the camera to look at the rear display after... you can tell they are used to seeing the instant results from cell phone pics.

Hey, all it cost me was a couple rolls of digital film.....



That was a joke BTW 😎

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Mar 2, 2020 19:53:03   #
fotoman150
 
I’ve done many of these for schools and dances and daycares

Your photos look good. You did a good job overall.

I usually shoot at ISO 200, f11, 1/125 sec. f5.6 is a little shallow.

70-210 would not be the lens of choice for me. It looks like you were too far away from the subjects to communicate with them how to adjust the pose. I have a 35-135 f4 that I use. I keep it around 85-100mm.

I adjust my lights to f11, 1/125, ISO 200 accordingly. Use your histogram to check the light. That would have caught the blown out highlights.

Keep the lights high and pointed down. This will put any shadows behind and below the subjects.

I also move the people toward the camera a few feet to keep from having shadows on the backdrop and to keep it from looking like a firing squad. That is the standard way of shooting these kinds of photos.

I post my pics to a Zenfolio account and passcode protect it. They can download from there for free or for a cost.

I ALWAYS shoot RAW. NEVER jpg.

This was an excellent learning experience for you. I’m sure you’re very proud and somewhat relieved that it turned out ok. Many people would have been too scared to do what you did. I bet you were shaking like a leaf. I was when I first did this. That’s a lot of people. I did it many, many times back in the film days.

Never be ashamed or embarrassed about the type of photography you do. This is respectable work and can be loads of fun for everyone. I prefer this over flowers, bees and hummingbirds any day.

Now do it again but charge $500 up front. Then let them download all they want.

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Mar 2, 2020 20:22:00   #
Adamborz
 
fotoman150 wrote:
I’ve done many of these for schools and dances and daycares

Your photos look good. You did a good job overall.

I usually shoot at ISO 200, f11, 1/125 sec. f5.6 is a little shallow.

70-210 would not be the lens of choice for me. It looks like you were too far away from the subjects to communicate with them how to adjust the pose. I have a 35-135 f4 that I use. I keep it around 85-100mm.

I adjust my lights to f11, 1/125, ISO 200 accordingly. Use your histogram to check the light. That would have caught the blown out highlights.

Keep the lights high and pointed down.

I also move the people toward the camera a few feet to keep from having shadows on the backdrop and to keep it from looking like a firing squad. That is the standard way of shooting these kinds of photos.

I post my pics to a Zenfolio account and passcode protect it. They can download from there for free or for a cost.

I always shoot RAW. NEVER jpg.

This was an excellent learning experience for you. I’m sure you’re very proud and somewhat relieved that it turned out ok. Many people would have been too scared to do what you did. That’s a lot of people.

Never be ashamed or embarrassed about the type of photography you do. This is respectable work and can be loads of fun for everyone. I prefer this over flowers, bees and hummingbirds any day.
I’ve done many of these for schools and dances and... (show quote)


Yes thanks for the tips... I was shooting right around 70mm, I have other lenses but that one is my sharpest.

Anyhow, I’ll move the subjects further from the backdrop next time for sure and use a smaller aperture.

I don’t have a light meter actually, Just use the histogram to check exposure. I was going for a little over closed but nothing pegged to the right but it killed the whites so don’t listen to everything you read online.

I’ll try f/11 next time for sure. Thanks

I planned on just sending the small jpeg, but I just couldn’t given the quality.

I find if I put my key light too high I don’t get the catch light in the eye. This time I caught the fill light too as I usually just have it right on the floor but put it on a stand for a more professional look. 🙄

This is definitely the most people I ever shot at one time, I am very satisfied it turned out as well as it did.

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Mar 2, 2020 20:45:28   #
fotoman150
 
Adamborz wrote:
Yes thanks for the tips... I was shooting right around 70mm, I have other lenses but that one is my sharpest.

Anyhow, I’ll move the subjects further from the backdrop next time for sure and use a smaller aperture.

I don’t have a light meter actually, Just use the histogram to check exposure. I was going for a little over closed but nothing pegged to the right but it killed the whites so don’t listen to everything you read online.

I’ll try f/11 next time for sure. Thanks

I planned on just sending the small jpeg, but I just couldn’t given the quality.

I find if I put my key light too high I don’t get the catch light in the eye. This time I caught the fill light too as I usually just have it right on the floor but put it on a stand for a more professional look. 🙄

This is definitely the most people I ever shot at one time, I am very satisfied it turned out as well as it did.
Yes thanks for the tips... I was shooting right ar... (show quote)


If you shoot with the histogram right down the middle you can always adjust PP.

I’ve never heard of putting the fill light on the floor. Up high and down simulates daylight or sunlight so to speak.

Looks like a shoot through umbrella.

You done good.

Make sure you keep the shutter speed at least 1/125 otherwise you can get motion blur if they move suddenly.

Oh and ditch the tripod. You don’t need it and it’s cumbersome. Without it you can turn the camera vertical so you don’t cut off the legs.

Oh shoot. Never mind. Your backdrop doesn’t reach the floor. I always have a cloth or paper backdrop that extends under the people and goes out about 20ft toward the camera.

In your case, ideally, the backdrop should go to the floor and and you should create a set maybe with hay bales and straw on the floor. Then shoot vertically for one person or a couple and horizontally for a group.

That’s just the way that I would want to do it. Others may have other ideas that work also.

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