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Angle of view question
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Feb 28, 2020 08:34:26   #
Silverrails
 
robertjerl wrote:
A 1.5 crop factor is a 1.5 crop factor and a 100 mm lens is a 100 mm lens so they will both have the angle of view of a 150 mm lens on a DX body.

The difference is that if the DX lens is put on an FX body it won't fill the entire sensor because it is designed to fill a DX sensor. The FX lens will fill both size sensors bit the DX sensor will only see the center of the image circle from the FX lens.


đź‘Ťđź‘Ťđź‘Ť, Very well explained, a important determining factor here is the difference in Sensor size between a DX- Crop-Sensor Camera and a FX- Full Fame Camera.

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Feb 28, 2020 08:39:39   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
Delderby wrote:
This is how I see it.
A 100mm DSLR lens on a DSLR camera will have a tighter field of view than a 100mm FF lens on a FF camera. Therefore the image from the DSLR will fill the frame with a lesser view than that of the FF. i.e. less than the whole mountain with the DSLR, all of the mountain with the FF. Therefore it appears that the DSLR lens has a longer reach (which it does not). It follows that if the FF image is cropped down to show the same view as that from the DSLR, with everything else being equal, including the sensor mpxs, the FF pic will have more detail than the DSLR (granted - you may not see it). QED
This is how I see it. br A 100mm DSLR lens on a D... (show quote)

Get your terms right.
DSLR’s (digital single lens reflex) are a camera design and
come in several formats:
APS-C, FF (like 35mm film) and medium format.
Mirrorless interchangable lens cameras (MILC) add micro 4/3rds format to that list of available formats.

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Feb 28, 2020 08:40:43   #
BebuLamar
 
ELNikkor wrote:
When iwas considering getting a wide-angle lens for an 8x10 camera, my dad said it would be the same as a 24mm on my Nikon FM. That didn't quite set right with me because I felt the DOF would be different, as well as the compression effect of the longer focal length, even though the final angle of coverage would be the same.


The DOF would be different for the same aperture. The reason is that although the size of the circle of confusion is the same in both case the acceptable size of the circle is larger for the 8x10 because you don't need to enlarge as much when making print of the same size. There is no compression effect of longer focal length. Longer focal length doesn't have the compression effect. The compression effect depending on the camera to subject distance. With narrower angle of view we tend to stay further away from the subject thus we associate the effect with long focal length.

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Feb 28, 2020 08:42:25   #
GoofyNewfie Loc: Kansas City
 
BebuLamar wrote:
What is the angle of view of 150mm?


Yes, it was a short-sighted comment making it even more confusing for anyone who doesn’t know they mean the “equivalent of a 150mm lens on a full-frame camera.”

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Feb 28, 2020 08:58:24   #
FTn
 
bsprague wrote:
I was at Yellowstone with my m43 camera pointed at a wolf. It had a 100-400 mm lens. The woman next to me and a full frame Nikon and a lens the length of my arm. She felt sorry for me with such a tiny camera and lens so offered me a peek at the wolf in her camera. I looked, smiled and thanked her because I had never looked through a lens that big. Size does matter! A few minutes later the wolf moved. I was shooting 4K video so the "crop factor", "angle of view" or whatever is different again. I offered her a look in my viewfinder. She was pissed because my viewfinder had more wolf in it than hers. I didn't even try to explain crop factors or equivalent views.

After the wolf left, we packed up. She had a large man to help carry her gear to her Suburban. In the back was a false floor. Beneath it was custom cut, foam lined compartments for he "wildlife" kit". Mine when into my camera bag.

If there is a point, mine would be to stop calculating and look through the camera and lens. If it is working, use it. If not get a bigger or smaller lens.
I was at Yellowstone with my m43 camera pointed at... (show quote)


Shooting with a big lens does not in any way mean the photographer has a big brain.

- FTn

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Feb 28, 2020 09:34:14   #
frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.
 
bsprague wrote:
I was at Yellowstone with my m43 camera pointed at a wolf. It had a 100-400 mm lens. The woman next to me and a full frame Nikon and a lens the length of my arm. She felt sorry for me with such a tiny camera and lens so offered me a peek at the wolf in her camera. I looked, smiled and thanked her because I had never looked through a lens that big. Size does matter! A few minutes later the wolf moved. I was shooting 4K video so the "crop factor", "angle of view" or whatever is different again. I offered her a look in my viewfinder. She was pissed because my viewfinder had more wolf in it than hers. I didn't even try to explain crop factors or equivalent views.

After the wolf left, we packed up. She had a large man to help carry her gear to her Suburban. In the back was a false floor. Beneath it was custom cut, foam lined compartments for he "wildlife" kit". Mine when into my camera bag.

If there is a point, mine would be to stop calculating and look through the camera and lens. If it is working, use it. If not get a bigger or smaller lens.
I was at Yellowstone with my m43 camera pointed at... (show quote)


that's what I have always said Bill. Aim, frame and shoot.

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Feb 28, 2020 09:48:42   #
cjc2 Loc: Hellertown PA
 
kmpankopf wrote:
Unless it is a typo, if you mount a DX lens on a DX camera, you get the mm - a DX 100 mm on D7200 is still 100 mm. If you mount a FX lens on a DX camera, you get the increased angle. So a 50 mm FX lens on the D7200 will result in a 75 mm angle. And most software, like Bridge, will calculate it for you.


ABSOLUTELY INCORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Feb 28, 2020 10:05:37   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
GoofyNewfie wrote:
Get your terms right.
DSLR’s are a camera design.
come in several formats:
APS-C, FF (like 35mm film) and medium format.
Mirrorless interchangable lens cameras (MILC) add micro 4/3rds format to that list of available formats.


Consider yourself to have received a pat on the head and a gold star. Happy now?

DSLR was the term originally used for cameras with an APS-C size sensor (before FFs were manufactured).
FF was the term used for DSLR style cameras with a similar sized sensor to 35mm film.
MILC is a goofy term for the above with EVFs, the first of which were MFTs (or M43, for the goofy newfies)

So we should have EVFF, OVFF, EVSLR, OVSLR, MFT, BRIDGE, COMPACT, SMART PHONE.

When reflex cameras stop being manufactured in the next year or so I feel sure that the terminology will become simpler and less confusing.

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Feb 28, 2020 10:21:27   #
MT Shooter Loc: Montana
 
Delderby wrote:
Consider yourself to have received a pat on the head and a gold star. Happy now?

DSLR was the term originally used for cameras with an APS-C size sensor (before FFs were manufactured).
FF was the term used for DSLR style cameras with a similar sized sensor to 35mm film.
MILC is a goofy term for the above with EVFs, the first of which were MFTs (or M43, for the goofy newfies)

So we should have EVFF, OVFF, EVSLR, OVSLR, MFT, BRIDGE, COMPACT, SMART PHONE.

When reflex cameras stop being manufactured in the next year or so I feel sure that the terminology will become simpler and less confusing.
Consider yourself to have received a pat on the he... (show quote)


There's so much wrong with this post I could write a book!
But I have neither the time nor inclination so I won't.

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Feb 28, 2020 10:46:16   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
MT Shooter wrote:
There's so much wrong with this post I could write a book!
But I have neither the time nor inclination so I won't.


I would be genuinely glad if you could enlighten me.

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Feb 28, 2020 11:14:18   #
fosis Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Two concepts to be understood:
1. A 100 mm lens, regardless of DX or FX, will deliver the same image size to the film plane or the light sensitive imaging sensor. It is the size of the sensor that "crops" the image to appear like 150mm on a DX.
2. A 100mm DX lens is not made to throw its image in a circle that is large enough to cover a 24 x 36mm full frame sensor or film. A 100mm FX lens will throw its image over that larger area.
So if you don't mind a little extra light thrown back into the inside of the camera, you can use an FX 100mm lens on a DX body and get the same "150mm" image on the smaller sensor. And you can use that lens as a 100mm lens on an FX body.

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Feb 28, 2020 11:41:12   #
sirvive Loc: South Louisiana
 
As already stated, the answer to the original OP’s question is yes; mounting 100mm FX lens on a DX camera will give you the equivalent angle of view of a 150mm lens.

Some very good explanations have been given but I agree with KISS and “almost gives me a headache”. I may be producing yet another kind of headache
My attempt at simplifying …

Focal length equivalents for DX (APS-C) and FX (full frame) lenses … “crop factor”

ANY FX or DX lens on a DX sensor camera
Equivalent Focal Length = 1.5 X (actual marked focal length). Example: 100mm lens = 150mm equiv. = 1.6 X (actual marked FL for Canon) Example: 100mm lens = 160mm

ANY FX or DX lens on an FX sensor camera, no crop factor
Equivalent Focal Length = actual focal length. Example: 100mm lens = 100mm

ANY lens on a 4/3 sensor camera (micro in micro four thirds, only refers to the lens mount)
Equivalent Focal Length = 2 X (actual marked FL). Example: 100mm lens = 200mm equiv.

Other sensor (and film) sizes have lens view equivalents that can be compared to “full frame” sensors, according to their relative sizes.

So… to judge your field of view, equivalent angle of view, lens does not change...

if using a DX camera, multiply ALL lens FLs by 1.5
If using an FX camera, lens view is what is marked
If using Micro 4/3 cameras, multiply all lens FLs by 2

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Feb 28, 2020 11:49:36   #
rikhar Loc: Ct. shoreline
 
rikhar wrote:
Please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding is that if I mount a 100 mm DX lens on my DX camera (D7200) it will give me an angle of view equal to that of a 150mm lens because of the 1.5 crop factor. My question is this. If I now mount a 100mm FX lens on the same DX camera, will I still get a 150mm angle of view? In other words, does the dx/fx designation on a lens make a difference in the angle of view or is it just the size of the sensor that controls this. I'm sorry if this has already been answered but I couldn't find it in the search. Thank you in advance of your answer/answers

Rick
Please correct me if I'm wrong. My understanding i... (show quote)


Thank you for your reply Kozan, but that does not answer my question
rick

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Feb 28, 2020 12:03:22   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
sirvive wrote:
As already stated, the answer to the original OP’s question is yes; mounting 100mm FX lens on a DX camera will give you the equivalent angle of view of a 150mm lens.

Some very good explanations have been given but I agree with KISS and “almost gives me a headache”. I may be producing yet another kind of headache
My attempt at simplifying …

Focal length equivalents for DX (APS-C) and FX (full frame) lenses … “crop factor”

ANY FX or DX lens on a DX sensor camera
Equivalent Focal Length = 1.5 X (actual marked focal length). Example: 100mm lens = 150mm equiv. = 1.6 X (actual marked FL for Canon) Example: 100mm lens = 160mm

ANY FX or DX lens on an FX sensor camera, no crop factor
Equivalent Focal Length = actual focal length. Example: 100mm lens = 100mm

ANY lens on a 4/3 sensor camera (micro in micro four thirds, only refers to the lens mount)
Equivalent Focal Length = 2 X (actual marked FL). Example: 100mm lens = 200mm equiv.

Other sensor (and film) sizes have lens view equivalents that can be compared to “full frame” sensors, according to their relative sizes.

So… to judge your field of view, equivalent angle of view, lens does not change...

if using a DX camera, multiply ALL lens FLs by 1.5
If using an FX camera, lens view is what is marked
If using Micro 4/3 cameras, multiply all lens FLs by 2
As already stated, the answer to the original OP’s... (show quote)


Yes am I right in thinking that with M43 the lens diameter can also be smaller because of the format (as the shape becomes more square it better fits to a circle)?

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Feb 28, 2020 12:21:20   #
R.G. Loc: Scotland
 
Further to what myself and others have said, when discussing or asking about these matters, everybody involved should be clear whether they're referring to actual focal length (as stated on the lens) or full frame equivalent (usually abbreviated to "FF equiv." or some such).

Focal length is not directly related to angle of view because for any given focal length, angle of view changes as the sensor size changes.

But for any given sensor size, angle of view is directly related to focal length - provided the image produced by the lens is big enough to completely cover the sensor (this is why FX cameras have to be used in crop mode when using DX lenses).

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