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Romney's Taxes released and You won't believe it
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Sep 22, 2012 21:12:47   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
Lancer W/A Canon wrote:
Hey Richard, Don't bother with anything blurryeyed says, he prints lies, half truths and innuendos, nothing else.


Lancer... real grown up of you, you can't win an intellectual argument so you will follow me around and post this baby crap behind me.... Good thinking that puts weight behind any future posts that you may choose to have...

Although both sides tell lies and half truths your side are the champions of such.... Obama is a Chicago politician that not only has come out of the Chicago political machine, he has bought that same machine with him and they now run his campaign... LOL Lancer, if you want to challenge what I have posted then by all means go ahead, but other than that you are just showing your inability to deal with those who would disagree with you.... I do not buy your liberal line, and I would say that the liberal line is full of less than half truths as often it just does not make sense... I have yet to have a liberal tell me how we are going to deal with Social Security, Medicare, the mounting debt, and now you have taken over our healthcare and we are supposed to have confidence in that... LOL Tell, me old wise truth teller that you are.. How are our government run programs working out for us lets start with education, when is debt too much, just how far away is the day when the government can not finance these huge deficits and just what will you liberals do then.. oh please ol wise and honest one, tell me.

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Sep 22, 2012 21:16:41   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
Richard94611 wrote:
You fail to appreciate the one gigantic step forward Obama made during the first year of his presidency, Obamacare, which he had to devote enormous effort to in order to get it passed. Succeeding with this was so difficult, time-consuming and complex that he could not get to a lot of other items, and he intended to get to on them after Obamacare was passed.


Obamacare a gigantic step? That's rather presumptuous of you, seems to me the jury is still out on what the effects, both negative & positive, the Act will have.

Obama had to "devote enormous effort" to get the Affordable Care Act passed? To succeed with the Act, It was "so difficult, time-consuming and complex that he could not get to a lot of other items he intended.........."

Really?? Obama was inaugurated on January 20, 2009. Upon his inauguration, the 111th Congress (January 3, 2009 - January 3, 2011) consisted of:

Senate: 57 Democrats, 2 Indepenents (caucusing w/Democrats) & 41 Republicans.

House of Representatives: 255 Democrats & 179 Republicans.

The Affordable Care Act was signed into law on March 23rd, 2010. So for fourteen (14) months he had to "devote enormous effort" with an overwhelming majority of Democrats in Congress to get Obamacare passed. Come on, do you really believe that? Obama then had another nine (9) plus months with that same overwhelming Democratic majority in Congress, to get any of those other "items" he wanted passed. Where was any "Republican obstructionism" during those twenty four (24) months?

No, the President is in over his head and he always has been. His failure, even with two years of domination over the Congress, of not being able to keep his promises, is his fault, no one else's. Even now, his party controls the Senate & Executive branches. As much as I, and many, many others, looked forward to his Presidency with hope, he has failed and is not the same man he promised to be in 2008.

Failure should not be rewarded, it is time for a change.

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Sep 22, 2012 21:43:01   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
Lancer W/A Canon wrote:
Blurryeyed wrote:
Kit Lens wrote:
This is the problem. He's the one that said anyone who pays more taxes than he owes shouldn't be President and now I agree with him.
But here is the other issue. You see when you pay too much on your taxes you can amend them anytime in the next three years. So he's released his taxes and now he can simply amend them and get the rest of his deduction.
It goes to show that he's once again manipulating the system to come up with the answer he likes.
Yes he gave the money to charity (like the Morman church needs more money) but if he took the deduction he would have paid 9% taxes.
Your payroll taxes are more than that. Even Mitt's 47%'rs who pay no income tax pay more than 9% in payroll taxes.
Guess the problem I have with it is that it speaks to his dishonesty.
This is the problem. He's the one that said anyon... (show quote)



As you said in an earlier post you are one of those who would not only not vote for Romney but you are so firmly cemented in your political ideology that will disparage him at any opportunity, even while excusing the president for weakening the programs that you stated that you rely on... The president did take $716 billion out of medicare and shifted it to Obamacare where it will not benefit you at all. When the physician and provider cuts come in you will begin to feel the effect, and if you are a benefactor of Medicare Advantage you can pretty much kiss that goodbye because the president will not fund that after 2013, he has used $8 billion from the ACA to fund the cuts that were supposed to occur this year so that they would occur after the election.

There is nothing that Romney could do that would allow you to have a kind word for him, just as there is little that president Obama could do that would allow me to have even a centila of confidence in him..

Cheers.
quote=Kit Lens This is the problem. He's the one... (show quote)


The non-partisan fact-checker Politifact.com has rated a nearly identical charge by Romney, that Obama has "robbed" Medicare of the amount as "mostly false

Now I know you know the truth, yet you lie.
quote=Blurryeyed quote=Kit Lens This is the prob... (show quote)


My post truthful and it is borne out by the same politifact article that you post... If you read the article the ACA did take the savings from Medicare from the program and apply those monies to the ACA... so how am I lying, even the CBO stated that you can not count money twice when president Obama tried to claim that he was saving money for Medicare that would be used for the purposes of saving the Medicare program.... there were problems in reconciling the presidents claims, and that came from the CBO not a biased newspaper. Even your Rachael Maddow has gone off on the inaccuracy of Politifact at great length, devoting an entire show to it.

Quote:
Last week, a new Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report updated the amount of money Obamacare robs out of Medicare from $500 billion to a whopping $716 billion between 2013 and 2022.

According to the CBO, the payment cuts in Medicare include:
A $260 billion payment cut for hospital services.
A $39 billion payment cut for skilled nursing services.
A $17 billion payment cut for hospice services.
A $66 billion payment cut for home health services.
A $33 billion payment cut for all other services.
A $156 billion cut in payment rates in Medicare Advantage (MA); $156 billion is before considering interactions with other provisions. The House Ways and Means Committee was able to include interactions with other provisions, estimating the cuts to MA to be even higher, coming in at $308 billion.
$56 billion in cuts for disproportionate share hospital (DSH) payments.* DSH payments go to hospitals that serve a large number of low-income patients.
$114 billion in other provisions pertaining to Medicare, Medicaid, and CHIP* (does not include coverage-related provisions).

*Subtract $25 billion total between DSH payments and other provisions for spending that was cut from Medicaid and CHIP.

In total, Obamacare raids Medicare by $716 billion from 2013 to 2022. Despite Medicare facing a 75-year unfunded obligation of $37 trillion, Obamacare uses the savings from the cuts to pay for other provisions in Obamacare, not to help shore up Medicare’s finances.

The impact of these cuts will be detrimental to seniors’ access to care. The Medicare trustees 2012 report concludes that these lower Medicare payment rates will cause an estimated 15 percent of hospitals, skilled nursing facilities, and home health agencies to operate at a loss by 2019, 25 percent to operate at a loss in 2030, and 40 percent by 2050. Operating at a loss means these facilities are likely to cut back their services to Medicare patients or close their doors, making it more difficult for seniors to access these services.

In addition, as MA deteriorates under Obamacare’s cuts, many of those who are enrolled in MA (27 percent of total Medicare beneficiaries) will lose their current health coverage and be forced back into traditional Medicare, where Medicare providers will be subject to further cuts. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services chief actuary predicted in 2010 that enrollment in MA would decrease 50 percent by 2017, when Obamacare’s cuts were estimated at only $145 billion. Now that the cuts have been increased to $156 billion (or possibly $308 billion, as the Ways and Means Committee estimates), MA enrollment will surely decrease even further.

But Obamacare’s raid of Medicare doesn’t stop with cuts; it includes a redirection of tax revenue from the Medicare payroll tax hike in Obamacare. The payroll tax funds Medicare Part A, the trust fund that is projected to become insolvent as soon as 2024. Obamacare increases the tax from 2.9 percent to 3.8 percent, which is projected to cost taxpayers $318 billion from 2013 to 2022. However, for the very first time, Obamacare does not use the tax revenue from the increased Medicare payroll tax to pay for Medicare; the money is used to fund other parts of Obamacare, much like the $716 billion in cuts are.

With a raid on Medicare of this magnitude, President Obama’s assertion that his new law is protecting seniors and Medicare is astonishing. The truth is that Obamacare does the opposite.
Last week, a new Congressional Budget Office (CBO)... (show quote)

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Sep 22, 2012 21:46:48   #
Goldengatebill
 
BIG DEAL His tax for last year (when he was going to run for office). Lets see a few years ago when he was realy pulling the shi-.

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Sep 22, 2012 22:42:52   #
Richard94611 Loc: Oakland, CA
 
It is clear that Obama did not rob Medicare. But if you tell a lie enough times, there are always some people who will believe it. We have a few of that ilk commenting here in this discussion.

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Sep 22, 2012 22:55:57   #
FLandWVMIKE Loc: Daytona Beach, Fla.
 
BO's biggest problem is his lack of leadership. With the Democratic Congress and House, he still could not lead us out of the high national debt, massive unemployment, economic ruin and high oil prices.
The USA is the most disliked country in the world, especially by his fellow Muslims.

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Sep 22, 2012 23:00:00   #
Wonka Loc: Reno NV.
 
The White house lies about everthing! This is the worst presidency ever. I swear this guy is the Anti-Christ!

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Sep 22, 2012 23:03:20   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
Richard94611 wrote:
It is clear that Obama did not rob Medicare. But if you tell a lie enough times, there are always some people who will believe it. We have a few of that ilk commenting here in this discussion.


In a November 2009 interview with ABC News’ Jake Tapper, Obama acknowledged that a third of the funding for ObamaCare came from cutting Medicare.

ABC’s Jake Tapper: “One of the concerns about health care and how you pay for it: third of the funding comes from cuts to Medicare.”

President Obama: “Right.”

Tapper went on to ask Obama whether he would allow Congress to repeal or patch the Medicare cuts as it does every year with the so-called Doc Fix, a measure designed to ensure adequate reimbursement payments are maintained to doctors who care for patients covered by Medicare.

Obama said that his Medicare cuts were permanent and that he would never allow Congress to repeal them.

Was Obama lying? 8-)

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Sep 22, 2012 23:09:42   #
jolly1
 
Blurryeyed wrote:
Lancer W/A Canon wrote:
Hey Richard, Don't bother with anything blurryeyed says, he prints lies, half truths and innuendos, nothing else.


Lancer... real grown up of you, you can't win an intellectual argument so you will follow me around and post this baby crap behind me.... Good thinking that puts weight behind any future posts that you may choose to have...

Although both sides tell lies and half truths your side are the champions of such.... Obama is a Chicago politician that not only has come out of the Chicago political machine, he has bought that same machine with him and they now run his campaign... LOL Lancer, if you want to challenge what I have posted then by all means go ahead, but other than that you are just showing your inability to deal with those who would disagree with you.... I do not buy your liberal line, and I would say that the liberal line is full of less than half truths as often it just does not make sense... I have yet to have a liberal tell me how we are going to deal with Social Security, Medicare, the mounting debt, and now you have taken over our healthcare and we are supposed to have confidence in that... LOL Tell, me old wise truth teller that you are.. How are our government run programs working out for us lets start with education, when is debt too much, just how far away is the day when the government can not finance these huge deficits and just what will you liberals do then.. oh please ol wise and honest one, tell me.
quote=Lancer W/A Canon Hey Richard, Don't bother ... (show quote)



You're banging your head against a whole lot of ignorance,
jealousy, hate, and more than a little anti-American attitude with these brainless idiots. Let them go, either way they will be losers. Obama wins and destroys our country, they will go down with the rest of us. Romney wins, and they will be known as fools forever more. Don't let them get you down. Better just let them rant and rave while we all ignore them.

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Sep 22, 2012 23:15:22   #
sueyeisert Loc: New Jersey
 
First of all the liberals (and I'm proud to call myself a liberal) left President Bush with a surplus. We should go back to the tax rates in effect when Clinton was president. We only pay social security tax until about $110,000 change that to $200,000. too many people only have social security to live on in their 70's and 80's.
Healthcare is a right not a privilege for the wealthy. Every western industrialized country has universal healthcare. All I know is that our insurance companies make billions of dollars of of us. My neighbor lost his job and pays $2200/month that's right per month. for health insurance for a family of three. There is something wrong with that. We need real reform in this country and the tax laws shouldn't be written by the wealthy for the wealthy.
I wish everyone good health with our system of healthcare you'd better stay well. and I'm finished with this topic.

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Sep 22, 2012 23:21:13   #
Bmac Loc: Long Island, NY
 
sueyeisert wrote:
All I know is that our insurance companies make billions of dollars of of us. My neighbor lost his job and pays $2200/month that's right per month. for health insurance for a family of three. There is something wrong with that. We need real reform in this country and the tax laws shouldn't be written by the wealthy for the wealthy. I wish everyone good health with our system of healthcare you'd better stay well. and I'm finished with this topic.


Perhaps you haven't heard, the Affordable Care Act was signed and has been law since March of 2010. One of the reasons proponents of the Act gave for passing was that health care costs would be reduced. My premiums have gone up, not down. It looks like the Act hasn't helped your neighbor much either. 8-)

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Sep 22, 2012 23:22:08   #
overthemoon Loc: Wisconsin
 
sueyeisert wrote:
First of all the liberals (and I'm proud to call myself a liberal) left President Bush with a surplus. We should go back to the tax rates in effect when Clinton was president. We only pay social security tax until about $110,000 change that to $200,000. too many people only have social security to live on in their 70's and 80's.
Healthcare is a right not a privilege for the wealthy. Every western industrialized country has universal healthcare. All I know is that our insurance companies make billions of dollars of of us. My neighbor lost his job and pays $2200/month that's right per month. for health insurance for a family of three. There is something wrong with that. We need real reform in this country and the tax laws shouldn't be written by the wealthy for the wealthy.
I wish everyone good health with our system of healthcare you'd better stay well. and I'm finished with this topic.
First of all the liberals (and I'm proud to call m... (show quote)


:thumbup:

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Sep 22, 2012 23:23:24   #
sueyeisert Loc: New Jersey
 
Wonka wrote:
The White house lies about everthing! This is the worst presidency ever. I swear this guy is the Anti-Christ!


Shame on you for talking that way!! Think what Jesus would reply to that comment. You don't help the conversation speaking that way. You just show you're bigotry and ignorance. Why don't you spend your time thinking what would Jesus do.

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Sep 22, 2012 23:25:59   #
sueyeisert Loc: New Jersey
 
Bmac wrote:
sueyeisert wrote:
All I know is that our insurance companies make billions of dollars of of us. My neighbor lost his job and pays $2200/month that's right per month. for health insurance for a family of three. There is something wrong with that. We need real reform in this country and the tax laws shouldn't be written by the wealthy for the wealthy. I wish everyone good health with our system of healthcare you'd better stay well. and I'm finished with this topic.


Perhaps you haven't heard, the Affordable Care Act was signed and has been law since March of 2010. One of the reasons proponents of the Act gave for passing was that health care costs would be reduced. My premiums have gone up, not down. It looks like the Act hasn't helped your neighbor much either. 8-)
quote=sueyeisert All I know is that our insuranc... (show quote)


It's not fully enacted and I think it's not enough

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Sep 22, 2012 23:34:53   #
Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.
 
Lancer W/A Canon wrote:


The non-partisan fact-checker Politifact.com has rated a nearly identical charge by Romney, that Obama has "robbed" Medicare of the amount as "mostly false

Now I know you know the truth, yet you lie.


If the Heritage article was not enough for you Lancer here is a recent article that appeared in the Washington Post.... The difference between what president Obama has actually done and what Ryan has proposed is that Ryan left the money in Medicare for future funding where Obama has taken the money out of the program and transferred it to funding the ACA... This is all based on a CBO report that reflected changes to medicare if the ACA were to be repealed, the reductions to Medicare that the article talks about would be restored to Medicare were the ACA to be repealed.

So no Lancer I do not know that the claims that you have made are at all true and I would appreciate it that if you want to disagree with me in the future then that is what you should do, but I don't follow you around calling you a lair and spew a bunch of crap about how you only speak half truths and cast innuendo when in fact I do understand that you are merely misinformed.

Quote:
The Romney campaign has gone on the offense on Medicare, charging that the Affordable Care Act “cuts $716 billion” from the entitlement program.

That $716 billion figure is one you’ll probably be hearing a lot about during this election cycle. It’s worth understanding where it comes from and what the spending reductions mean for the Medicare program.
First, where it comes from. On July 24, the Congressional Budget Office sent a letter to House Speaker John Boehner, detailing the budget impact of repealing the Affordable Care Act. If Congress overturned the law, “spending for Medicare would increase by an estimated $716 billion over that 2013–2022 period.”

As to how the Affordable Care Act actually gets to $716 billion in Medicare savings, that’s a bit more complicated. John McDonough did the best job explaining it in his 2011 book, “Inside National Health Reform.” There, he looked at all the various Medicare cuts Democrats made to pay for the Affordable Care Act.
The majority of the cuts, as you can see in this chart below, come from reductions in how much Medicare reimburses hospitals and private health insurance companies.

The blue section represents reductions in how much Medicare reimburses private, Medicare Advantage plans. That program allows seniors to join a private health insurance, with the federal government footing the bill. The whole idea of Medicare Advantage was to drive down the cost of health insurance for the elderly as private insurance companies competing for seniors’ business.

That’s not what happened. By 2010, the average Medicare Advantage per-patient cost was 117 percent of regular fee-for-service. The Affordable Care Act gives those private plans a haircut and tethers reimbursement levels to the quality of care administered, and patient satisfaction.

The Medicare Advantage cut gets the most attention, but it only accounts for about a third of the Affordable Care Act’s spending reduction. Another big chunk comes from the hospitals. The health law changed how Medicare calculates what they get reimbursed for various services, slightly lowering their rates over time. Hospitals agreed to these cuts because they knew, at the same time, they would likely see an influx of paying patients with the Affordable Care Act’s insurance expansion.

The rest of the Affordable Care Act’s Medicare cuts are a lot smaller. Reductions to Medicare’s Disproportionate Share Payments — extra funds doled out the hospitals that see more uninsured patients — account for 5 percent in savings. Lower payments to home health providers make up another 8.8 percent. About a dozen cuts of this magnitude make up the green section above.

It’s worth noting that there’s one area these cuts don’t touch: Medicare benefits. The Affordable Care Act rolls back payment rates for hospitals and insurers. It does not, however, change the basket of benefits that patients have access to. And, as Ezra pointed out earlier today, the Ryan budget would keep these cuts in place.
The Romney campaign has gone on the offense on Med... (show quote)

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