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Time for new computer?
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Jan 19, 2020 14:08:12   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
just.a.guy wrote:
My question: How long do you think the software vendors will continue to support your hardware. The more versions that a vendor has to support the more costly it is to them. It seems hardware lasts a lot longer than the software vendors want to support the hardware. We are moving out of the old generation of information processing, where people bought/owned software on their machines. Then there is the use of the internet, which increases the attack vector for hackers. If you have an old but stable environment, and want to continue to use it without fear of changes, then you should keep it isolated/off of the internet (no network communication). If you want to use the internet, get yourself another machine that is up-to-date, and keep it up-to-date. For this other machine choose a fairly cheap machine. My son-in-law did that for 5+ years, but then the need to transfer images between the two environment (via memory stick) for a professional became just to cumbersome. There is always a cost.

Also, the advances in hardware and software are another cost you pay without internet connection.

In this new (today's) environment, the vendor cost to support older environments is becoming too costly. Google has moved to a limited support period for its operating system (6+ years). Microsoft is also moving into this direction for the same cost reason. Adobe has already abandoned it ownership program for photoshop, in favor of a rental service.

Also if your old environment is not on the internet, any recovery after hardware failure will be possible if you keep very good back up. Depending on the type of failure, you may not be able to recover your data. You may not be able rebuild your system as it was (some of the hardware or software will not be available). The 1960's space program had this problem. The data was in unknown formats, there was not existing program that could read it. The format of the data was unknown. If you take backups, make sure they are in a format independent format, so that 5 years from now you will be able to move the data to a new environment.

For these and other reasons, I try to stay reasonably close to the current tech environment. (the days of building your own systems are over - but then we still have black smiths even today - but their usefulness is very near zero - nice for nostalgia) I now expect to replace my systems every 5 to 10 years. I have moved to cloud storage, and let the professionals take care of backup and recovery. This requires an internet connection, which makes an isolated environment obsolete.

I have worked in IT environments for 35+ years. Just like an automobile, I no longer want to or can maintain an IT environment like an auto mechanic. I have no problem driving a car, and using it for its purpose. The IT environment has moved on just as the auto environment has changed in the past 20 years.
My question: How long do you think the software ve... (show quote)


Good perspective. Here’s an example, albeit an old one. Among my other computers, I had a dedicated XP machine for a very specific task because it had ISA slots, and i had a very specific ISA card, which could not be duplicated in PCI. When the MB got flakey, I bought another vintage MB and dutifully installed XP SP3 from the installation disc. Installation went fine, but surprise - no usable browser, so I couldn’t get to the internet site I needed to download some Kepleraian elements. Between XP SP3 and now, almost every site has gone from http and https, and none of the older browsers would allow access due to the security protocols, and none of the newer versions of IE, FireFox, Chrome, etc would support XP - tried them all, including IE releases back to 7 and FF back to 40 something. Finally gave up and scrapped the XP machine.

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Jan 19, 2020 15:00:32   #
htbrown Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
 
knoxworks wrote:
I've heard a variety of opinions on when to replace a computer.

I currently use a Hewlett Packard Envy 700-230 Desktop. Intel CPU of 3.10 GHz. 8.0 GB Ram. Disk space: out of 2 TB 1.37 TB is free. (I also use a WD external drive.) It will be six years old in September.

Usually the machine is on for hours every day. I've never had a problem with it. My last HP computer lasted years until 2006 when I found out that it used a rare and expensive type of RAM that never caught on. It was more practical to build an Asus from a kit than buy more RAM.

Among the programs I run are Lightroom, Photoshop and Microsoft Office.

I'm loyal to HP because I've had printers, copiers, and even a 2 MP camera that all were heavily used and didn't fail.

All feedback will be appreciated!
I've heard a variety of opinions on when to replac... (show quote)


I run an HP system very similar to yours, but it's four years older, has more disk space, but less free disk space :/

I see two limitations with mine. One is that 8 GB of ram is getting to be marginal, and my machine won't take more than 8 GB.

The other is that it gets crankier and slower with every Windoze update. It sometimes seems like before long, you'll need a Cray to run Windoze. (That's why my other machine, an even older laptop, runs Linux.)

When I upgrade my camera next, it will have much bigger files than my current, 12 MP model. I don't think my system will be up to the task.

Here's the thing: There is always something better, faster, and shinier out there. If what I have will do what I want, close enough, then I can't see upgrading. My current system has limitations, most all of which I can work around (so far). If I was making my living doing this, I would have upgraded long ago, just because of the time-is-money aspect. I don't make my money doing this, so I'm keeping what I have until it breaks or I can't get around its limitations.

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Jan 19, 2020 18:50:55   #
Real Nikon Lover Loc: Simi Valley, CA
 
My desktop is a 2011 all in one Dell bought at Costco. I upped the RAM to 32MB. It is still a very very strong machine and game with it too. The issue I have is the proprietary graphics card which only has 1meg of ram. I installed a SSD which really sped up boot time to almost zero wait state. If I could change the graphics card out I would keep it. Its all about system and graphics card ram, and storage when dealing with photography.

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Jan 19, 2020 19:02:54   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Jim Eads wrote:
My desktop is a 2011 all in one Dell bought at Costco. I upped the RAM to 32MB. It is still a very very strong machine and game with it too. The issue I have is the proprietary graphics card which only has 1meg of ram. I installed a SSD which really sped up boot time to almost zero wait state. If I could change the graphics card out I would keep it. Its all about system and graphics card ram, and storage when dealing with photography.


Why can’t you change the graphics card? Are there no AGP or PCI expansion slots?

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Jan 19, 2020 19:09:17   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
Tend to agree. Bear in mind, though, the axiom that over time the software outgrows the hardware.
Tomfl101 wrote:
If it ain’t broke don’t fix it. Just be sure you have a backup system for your external drive so you won’t lose anything it it fails.

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Jan 19, 2020 19:20:48   #
Real Nikon Lover Loc: Simi Valley, CA
 
TriX wrote:
Why can’t you change the graphics card? Are there no AGP or PCI expansion slots?


No. The graphics card is a hybrid proprietary which can only accomodate a duplicate card. It is also programmed in the bios which cant be lined out. I tried 3 different brand cards which allowed booting but no display.

Took the PC to Frys and Best Buy... talked to the tech managers both places. They said... time to upgrade if you want to go faster uploading images that are ginormous coming out of D850.

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Jan 19, 2020 19:35:38   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Jim Eads wrote:
No. The graphics card is a hybrid proprietary which can only accomodate a duplicate card. It is also programmed in the bios which cant be lined out. I tried 3 different brand cards which allowed booting but no display.

Took the PC to Frys and Best Buy... talked to the tech managers both places. They said... time to upgrade if you want to go faster uploading images that are ginormous coming out of D850.


That is an interesting issue. Just curious what you mean when you say a “hybrid”?, and when you say it will only accommodate a duplicate, do you mean a second card or a replacement of the same type? And were you able to install the driver of the any of the three you tried, and did they show up in control panel as enabled? Not doubting your information, just wondering if once the 3rd party card was installed if the driver was able to be installed and enabled. Just an issue I’ve never seen before.

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Jan 19, 2020 19:37:36   #
mjmoly
 
I would make the RAM upgrade and enjoy the “new” life in you existing computer.

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Jan 19, 2020 21:18:07   #
Real Nikon Lover Loc: Simi Valley, CA
 
TriX wrote:
That is an interesting issue. Just curious what you mean when you say a “hybrid”?, and when you say it will only accommodate a duplicate, do you mean a second card or a replacement of the same type? And were you able to install the driver of the any of the three you tried, and did they show up in control panel as enabled? Not doubting your information, just wondering if once the 3rd party card was installed if the driver was able to be installed and enabled. Just an issue I’ve never seen before.
That is an interesting issue. Just curious what yo... (show quote)


Hybrid as in, the Dell model was a Costco variety. The Dell PCs and others have to meet Costco specifications. So that on top of the proprietary design. (it is a AMD Radeon HD 6450) The card was an entry-level graphics card launched in April 2011. Built on the 40 nm process, and based on the Caicos graphics processor, which has a relatively small chip compared to today's Radeon. It has 512 MB GDDR5 memory on the card, which are connected using a 64-bit memory interface. The GPU is operating at a frequency of 625 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.

It is a single-slot card, and does not require any additional power connector, its power draw is rated at 18 W maximum. Display outputs include: 1x DVI, 1x HDMI, 1x VGA. Radeon HD 6450 is connected to the rest of the system using a PCI-Express 2.0 x16 interface. The card measures 168 mm in length, and features a single-slot cooling solution.

The way the bios is setup it will only except a like card. When I loaded the other drivers there was no option to pick/update a driver or even to install the new card when new hardware search was run. Because the graphics card is programmed in the bootup in the bios I would get recognition but no signal as though the full programming of the new drivers had not occurred. When I tried to manually override I would get the "blue screen of death". :)

I have had no issues with the old card other than load times on large graphics. I was trying to improve the load and gaming response by upgrading the card type/memory. Oh well. Time for a new Dell. This one has been issue free since 2011.

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Jan 19, 2020 22:17:17   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
Jim Eads wrote:
Hybrid as in, the Dell model was a Costco variety. The Dell PCs and others have to meet Costco specifications. So that on top of the proprietary design. (it is a AMD Radeon HD 6450) The card was an entry-level graphics card launched in April 2011. Built on the 40 nm process, and based on the Caicos graphics processor, which has a relatively small chip compared to today's Radeon. It has 512 MB GDDR5 memory on the card, which are connected using a 64-bit memory interface. The GPU is operating at a frequency of 625 MHz, memory is running at 800 MHz.

It is a single-slot card, and does not require any additional power connector, its power draw is rated at 18 W maximum. Display outputs include: 1x DVI, 1x HDMI, 1x VGA. Radeon HD 6450 is connected to the rest of the system using a PCI-Express 2.0 x16 interface. The card measures 168 mm in length, and features a single-slot cooling solution.

The way the bios is setup it will only except a like card. When I loaded the other drivers there was no option to pick/update a driver or even to install the new card when new hardware search was run. Because the graphics card is programmed in the bootup in the bios I would get recognition but no signal as though the full programming of the new drivers had not occurred. When I tried to manually override I would get the "blue screen of death". :)

I have had no issues with the old card other than load times on large graphics. I was trying to improve the load and gaming response by upgrading the card type/memory. Oh well. Time for a new Dell. This one has been issue free since 2011.
Hybrid as in, the Dell model was a Costco variety.... (show quote)


Ah, I understand and thanks for the detailed explanation. Sounds as if it IS time for a new machine 😩. Of course, you could replace the MB and then the graphics card if you could reuse the memory.

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Jan 19, 2020 22:37:12   #
Argus
 
I'm a former HP field engineer and I still have a company refurbished laptop (ProBook 6435) with 8GB of Ram and a 512 GB SSD that I use everyday. I can't see a reason to upgrade (unless I want a lighter laptop to carry) as most of the new stuff out today only runs Win 10 unless you know how to install Linux and add VirtualBox to run things like Photoshop and LightRoom. I say if it works don't fix it.

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Jan 20, 2020 06:29:53   #
rrkazman
 
I did not see this question, what operating system are you running? If you are not on Windows 10 you should consider up-dating. Microsoft just eliminated support for Windows 7, which was the last viable operating system. Windows 8 and 8.1 were table systems. Windows Vista is an unmentionable. Windows 10 which is the latest current OS comes on all new system, your will need the Pro version.

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Jan 20, 2020 07:27:29   #
knoxworks Loc: Western Mass.
 
These postings are quite interesting! Again I thank you all!

I have Windows 10, 64 bit.
(I miss Windows XP Pro.)
CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 CPU @ 3.10 GHz

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Jan 20, 2020 09:15:04   #
knoxworks Loc: Western Mass.
 
I have Windows 10 Home, 64 bit.

CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 CPU @ 3.10 GHz

I am not having any problems with this computer, but I hear some people say to replace one every two or three years max. I will increase the RAM and look into Windows 10 Pro, 64 bit. :)

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Jan 20, 2020 09:40:52   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
knoxworks wrote:
These postings are quite interesting! Again I thank you all!

I have Windows 10, 64 bit.
(I miss Windows XP Pro.)
CPU: Intel Core i5-4440 CPU @ 3.10 GHz


That’s a decent CPU. Increase the memory to 16 GB (if possible) and add an SSD for OS and applications - you’ll see a significant improvement in performance for under $200. Also consider an upgraded graphics card IF you have a spare slot AND the power supply is of decent size (look at the power rating on the label - I would recommend 400W minimum). You don’t need a $250 graphics card - just something decent with a GPU and maybe 2-4GB VRAM.

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