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Jan 17, 2020 06:45:44   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
f8lee wrote:
Yes, sadly, the concept of Intellectual Property and how it is getting (mis)used by some of the big players is relatively new and, for obvious reasons, not something Bezos and his brethren want to publicize.

Apparently some years back (2008), folks who previously purchased "1984" for their Kindles discovered that Amazon had "retrieved" said copies (due to some sort of kerfuffle with the author's estate or something). Amazon reimbursed them and said they were sorry. Of course, those who purchased the hard copies of the book were not affected.

An interesting read is "The End of Ownership: Personal Property in the Digital Economy" by Aaron Perzanowski and Jason Schultz - where they essentially point out that the concept of "ownership" no longer means what people think. It's one thing that people believe they "bought" that copy of software for $10 or $1000 when in fact it has always been the case that the money was to purchase the right to use said software (thus the whining about Adobe's and others' subscription schemes falls on deaf ears to those who understand the realities), but when something like a book that you ostensibly "bought" is suddenly retracted because, well for whatever reason, it shakes your confidence in what it means to have "bought" that book.

The bigger lesson, particularly with the "free" services like Google, Facebook et al, is that you are not the customer...you are the product that they sell to their actual customers, who are the advertisers.
Yes, sadly, the concept of Intellectual Property a... (show quote)

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Jan 17, 2020 07:07:35   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
The big companies on the Internet have found a way to monetize their activity. In a way, I say, "More power to them." Yet, they hide their money-making schemes from users. For example, these companies in the past gathered and then sold to others personal user information without user consent.

As another example, Google has managed to embed itself in practically every nook and cranny involving the Web. For example, if you use the excellent Google Maps in your smart cell phone, this program (app) will automatically track your every move. Google uses this information to show you things to do and buy along the way, thereby monetizing this otherwise free app. The user can opt out of this automatic tracking, but I'm inclined to believe that the masterminds at Google accept this user opting-out and bank on the near universal user participation in it.
f8lee wrote:
Yes, sadly, the concept of Intellectual Property and how it is getting (mis)used by some of the big players is relatively new and, for obvious reasons, not something Bezos and his brethren want to publicize.

Apparently some years back (2008), folks who previously purchased "1984" for their Kindles discovered that Amazon had "retrieved" said copies (due to some sort of kerfuffle with the author's estate or something). Amazon reimbursed them and said they were sorry. Of course, those who purchased the hard copies of the book were not affected.

An interesting read is "The End of Ownership: Personal Property in the Digital Economy" by Aaron Perzanowski and Jason Schultz - where they essentially point out that the concept of "ownership" no longer means what people think. It's one thing that people believe they "bought" that copy of software for $10 or $1000 when in fact it has always been the case that the money was to purchase the right to use said software (thus the whining about Adobe's and others' subscription schemes falls on deaf ears to those who understand the realities), but when something like a book that you ostensibly "bought" is suddenly retracted because, well for whatever reason, it shakes your confidence in what it means to have "bought" that book.

The bigger lesson, particularly with the "free" services like Google, Facebook et al, is that you are not the customer...you are the product that they sell to their actual customers, who are the advertisers.
Yes, sadly, the concept of Intellectual Property a... (show quote)

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Jan 17, 2020 07:47:39   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
anotherview wrote:
The big companies on the Internet have found a way to monetize their activity. In a way, I say, "More power to them." Yet, they hide their money-making schemes from users. For example, these companies in the past gathered and then sold to others personal user information without user consent.

As another example, Google has managed to embed itself in practically every nook and cranny involving the Web. For example, if you use the excellent Google Maps in your smart cell phone, this program (app) will automatically track your every move. Google uses this information to show you things to do and buy along the way, thereby monetizing this otherwise free app. The user can opt out of this automatic tracking, but I'm inclined to believe that the masterminds at Google accept this user opting-out and bank on the near universal user participation in it.
The big companies on the Internet have found a way... (show quote)


"Yet, they hide their money-making schemes from users"

Exactly - because their users (i.e. - us) are not their customers. So for all the braying about "transparency" we get from them, they are full of fecal material. It's just a matter of being aware.

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Jan 17, 2020 08:51:28   #
anotherview Loc: California
 
We live in a commercial culture in every direction, seeping into everything.
f8lee wrote:
"Yet, they hide their money-making schemes from users"

Exactly - because their users (i.e. - us) are not their customers. So for all the braying about "transparency" we get from them, they are full of fecal material. It's just a matter of being aware.

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Jan 17, 2020 10:46:54   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
anotherview wrote:
We live in a commercial culture in every direction, seeping into everything.


Well, sure - that is not new. What is different is the way technological advancements have insinuated themselves into our everyday lives in ways that were not (heck, could not) be predicted - and without the knowledge of the folks using it. That is where the danger lies.

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Jan 18, 2020 19:28:17   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
More info regarding using Amazon Photos Prime storage as a backup for your photos....

Once your images are uploaded, if you edit one of them it will detect that and upload the changed image, however, it does not replace the original image, instead it adds the day & time replaced to the file name and now you have the original and modified version on Amazon.

Basically if you backup a folder of images, then later edit an image by adding a keyword to it, Amazon will reupload it and change the name adding the change date and time.

Not an issue since photo storage is unlimited, BUT, you need to understand what has happened should you need to download files to restore for any reason. Unedited files will not be an issue, but edited files will have multiple copies that you will need to determine what is what at restore time.

If using software like Lightroom to manage your files, you will end up needing to import any edited files since they will have a new file name, or possibly rename the latest edited file to the original name so it links with the edits and pointers in the catalog.

The additional renamed files are visible examining the files/folders in the Amazon Drive web page.

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Jan 18, 2020 19:34:10   #
ChrisKet Loc: Orange, CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
More info regarding using Amazon Photos Prime storage as a backup for your photos....
.


Well now, that could explain the big difference in numbers for me...helps point me in a direction for further research. Thank you, again!

~Chris

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Jan 18, 2020 20:00:54   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
ChrisKet wrote:
Well now, that could explain the big difference in numbers for me...helps point me in a direction for further research. Thank you, again!

~Chris



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Jan 18, 2020 20:22:40   #
Magaliaman Loc: Magalia, CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
More info regarding using Amazon Photos Prime storage as a backup for your photos....

Once your images are uploaded, if you edit one of them it will detect that and upload the changed image, however, it does not replace the original image, instead it adds the day & time replaced to the file name and now you have the original and modified version on Amazon.

Basically if you backup a folder of images, then later edit an image by adding a keyword to it, Amazon will reupload it and change the name adding the change date and time.

Not an issue since photo storage is unlimited, BUT, you need to understand what has happened should you need to download files to restore for any reason. Unedited files will not be an issue, but edited files will have multiple copies that you will need to determine what is what at restore time.

If using software like Lightroom to manage your files, you will end up needing to import any edited files since they will have a new file name, or possibly rename the latest edited file to the original name so it links with the edits and pointers in the catalog.

The additional renamed files are visible examining the files/folders in the Amazon Drive web page.
More info regarding using Amazon Photos Prime stor... (show quote)


THAT Explains a lot. I've been seeing duplicates and wondering where the heck they're coming from. Thanks for the explanation ! It makes total sense now.

-Gary

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Jan 18, 2020 21:20:22   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
Magaliaman wrote:
THAT Explains a lot. I've been seeing duplicates and wondering where the heck they're coming from. Thanks for the explanation ! It makes total sense now.

-Gary


Originally, the client would not re-upload files that existed, making it useless as a backup system. When I tried the current client and saw re-uploads occurred I thought great, problem resolved. When I went into the Amazon Drive web page and saw the dupes I understood they were not replacing or updating the files, they were versioning by changing the file name.

Perhaps in a future version the versioning will be more up front and user controllable.

I am still uploading images as an off site backup, according to my calculations I have about a week to go :)

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Jan 18, 2020 21:32:14   #
Magaliaman Loc: Magalia, CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
Originally, the client would not re-upload files that existed, making it useless as a backup system. When I tried the current client and saw re-uploads occurred I thought great, problem resolved. When I went into the Amazon Drive web page and saw the dupes I understood they were not replacing or updating the files, they were versioning by changing the file name.

Perhaps in a future version the versioning will be more up front and user controllable.

I am still uploading images as an off site backup, according to my calculations I have about a week to go :)
Originally, the client would not re-upload files t... (show quote)


Don,

I'm not sure just how I feel about this yet...… If you're not careful, you could get yourself in a real mess I think. I Wish the software would prompt you if you wanted to "skip or replace" the file. Hmmmmmm Still, I'm glad you explained how its working.

-Gary

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Jan 19, 2020 08:57:59   #
ChrisKet Loc: Orange, CA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
, according to my calculations I have about a week to go :)


Ei-yi-yi!!!

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Jan 19, 2020 11:09:05   #
DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA
 
Dngallagher wrote:
Originally, the client would not re-upload files that existed, making it useless as a backup system. When I tried the current client and saw re-uploads occurred I thought great, problem resolved. When I went into the Amazon Drive web page and saw the dupes I understood they were not replacing or updating the files, they were versioning by changing the file name.

Perhaps in a future version the versioning will be more up front and user controllable.

I am still uploading images as an off site backup, according to my calculations I have about a week to go :)
Originally, the client would not re-upload files t... (show quote)


Versioning is a good idea to mitigate the problem of the system detecting a file being changed after it's somehow corrupted. With versioning, the corrupted file does not replace the original good file.

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Jan 19, 2020 11:26:05   #
Dngallagher Loc: Wilmington De.
 
DirtFarmer wrote:
Versioning is a good idea to mitigate the problem of the system detecting a file being changed after it's somehow corrupted. With versioning, the corrupted file does not replace the original good file.


Yes, provided you know about it and what to do to restore files. Since the file names are changed a straight restore only gets you back the original file, not the edited version, assuming a catalog system like Lightroom.

As long as you know how the versioning works you can make allowances for a restoration and get back both the original file and the latest edited version.

When I used Crashplan for cloud backup, it also versioned, but it was clear in how it did it, and during a restore you selected which version to restore up front.

I suppose the big difference is Crashplan was a cloud backup system, Amazon is a cloud photo storage system, not meant as a backup, but being used as a backup by many.

Now that I see what they are doing I can certainly work with it as a cloud backup of my images.

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Jan 19, 2020 22:58:25   #
AlohaBob Loc: Los Angeles, CA
 
frjeff wrote:
I shoot a Panasonic/LUMIX and Amazon does not support the RW2 raw format. WWonder what the chances are that they ever will?


Good news is that .rw2 files are uploaded and displayed (01/19/2020). It aint pretty :) Heavy green color cast for my images so far, but you can see the image and you can also get the the file name. For a backup for saving raw files it's great IMO. You can also catalog them. Google's way ahead of them as a display and cataloging tool at this point, but Amazon will probably catch up.

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