Self critique
Dec 29, 2019 11:10:34 #
Picture Taker
Loc: Michigan Thumb
My wife and several friends (pro Photographers) do the picking. The real pickers that count are the buyers.
Dec 29, 2019 12:59:23 #
I think self critique is vital to becoming a "good" photographer. Or, at least, to producing good photographs. And brutal self critique is very necessary.
I got a series of photos in Alaska several years ago of a bull moose feeding in a shallow pond. Not ideal conditions and not particularly great gear. When I got home and uploaded them to the computer, I started deleting as my brother watched. I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He couldn't believe I was deleting all these "great" photos. But none of them were great or even good photos to my eyes and that's all that counts.
These days I have started saving some questionable photos to a file labeled PP. I'm not a post processor and don't know if I ever will be but I am slowly learning Paint Shop Pro and may be able to rescue some that I would normally have deleted.
Bottom line, I don't think there is any way to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, no matter how much you want it.
I don't sell photos but I still maintain the position on brutal critiquing, I've been called a perfectionists and that might be accurate. After 50 years messing around with cameras I have yet to meet my idea of the perfect photograph.
I got a series of photos in Alaska several years ago of a bull moose feeding in a shallow pond. Not ideal conditions and not particularly great gear. When I got home and uploaded them to the computer, I started deleting as my brother watched. I thought he was going to have a heart attack. He couldn't believe I was deleting all these "great" photos. But none of them were great or even good photos to my eyes and that's all that counts.
These days I have started saving some questionable photos to a file labeled PP. I'm not a post processor and don't know if I ever will be but I am slowly learning Paint Shop Pro and may be able to rescue some that I would normally have deleted.
Bottom line, I don't think there is any way to turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, no matter how much you want it.
I don't sell photos but I still maintain the position on brutal critiquing, I've been called a perfectionists and that might be accurate. After 50 years messing around with cameras I have yet to meet my idea of the perfect photograph.
Dec 29, 2019 13:46:57 #
Critiquing and selling are two different things. Of coarse I critique me work. Once a level is met, nothing below that level is worth keeping, keep going in a forward, upward movement. That said, I use to do art shows, flea markets, etc... to sell my work. The folks would oh and ah over the prints which led to many wonderful conversations. Not wanting to fork over the money they at least did not insult me by offering less than the asking price. That said I had a friend or more like an associate at the same outing sell several hundred photos. His images were average but a few but they also represented what the buyers were looking for. Sunsets, sunrises, beach scenes, autumn colors and the like. Of coarse these images were more reasonable in price, but none the less sold in the hundreds each show. I had lots of same sort images in my files, but could not and would not sell anything of the sort. If you find the right niche for the right shows you will do wonderful, but you will be offering what the buyer wants, not necessarily what you want to print and offer. On the other hand if your work is off the scale and and on a whole different level than anyone else in the country, than you can name your price.....
Dec 29, 2019 14:10:45 #
I couldn't agree with you more!
As a portrait photographer, my work is advertised via word of mouth. I have had clients come as far away as 85 miles. It (photography in general) is very hard to put into words. I am sure you gave the OP a true and good answer. I thought your advise was very, very good!!!
Thanks,
Boone.
As a portrait photographer, my work is advertised via word of mouth. I have had clients come as far away as 85 miles. It (photography in general) is very hard to put into words. I am sure you gave the OP a true and good answer. I thought your advise was very, very good!!!
Thanks,
Boone.
Dec 29, 2019 15:30:53 #
I think that "self-critique" is a borderline oxymoron unless you adhere to a philosophy that I learned very early in my professional career when I was a young impressionable upstart- it came from my first mentor and employer and it stuck to this day and it's simple. "NEVER FALL IN LOVE WITH YOUR OWN WORK". This does not mean to say that I "HATE" everything I produce and I won't pontificate that I am my own worst critic- that borders on some kind of neurosis or at least, a lack of self-confidence in my work. So...as a professional IN BUSINESS, I prefer to call it stringent QUALITY CONTROL.
Whenever the subject of critique comes up on this forum, things usually get controversial. Some folks ask for critiques but they are really only after praise and when they hear negative comments, they become disappointed, combative, or just become anticlimactic and say "I really wanted all the defects or mistakes you pointed out- I like those" kinda thing. Others respond well and take the advice under advisement.
Many argue that there are no standards or rules that apply to ART and if you are going to engage in any kind of critiquing that approach becomes very problematic. There are no carved in stone commandments that apply to artistic photography but if you are going to engage in your own quality control or critique others' work there has to be some criteria or language that can be used to communicate your interpretations. So many folks, well-meaningfully advise to go with your heart, your "eye" your mind or you instincts- all very nice, romantic and artsy, but in all my years of training photographers and presenting classes, I find that most folks prefer definitive answers- at least as starting points.
Imagine, a person decides he or she wants to become a professional musician- they have been dabbling in music, probably have some talents, and decided to go to a well-respected teacher to take master classes, get some mentoring and refine their skills. I doubt very much if the teacher is gonna say “sit down at a pipe organ or even pick up a piccolo, go at it and see what comes out and if it sounds OK, go with it”. There are going to be discussions and practice of harmony, pitch, chord structure, scales, ear-training, phrasing, finite technicalities, expression and interpretation a whole lot more. It's not just a matter of operating the instrument and pressing the right keys.
So...I assume you know your camera and the basic methodologies- you know what buttons to press and which dials to turn. You know how to post-process, print and frame or present your work. To provide yourself with the quality control you need to set up basic criteria, here's my list- you can alter it as required- you can "check off the boxes" and after a while, you will instantly know which images to cull, which images to prepare for sales, which images to improve upon, etc.
Technica prerequisites: exposure, range, detail, and focus.
Color and/or tone: color harmony or purposeful disharmony, gray-scale, contrast, range, gradations, and key.
Composition: use of space, balance, use of lines, perspective, patterns, geometry, point of interest, lack of distraction or clutter, and ask yourself, where does the viewer's eye go to first and is the motif of your image in that place.
Does your image tell a story or make a statement about the subject?
Is the story clear or complex? For example, Suppose I make a "portrait" of a young lady n a dark dress against a fairly dark background- the simple statement is "Young Lady"! Same shot but the young lady is wearing a Day-Glo orange dress, the statement may change to "a bright orange dress with a young lady in it" and the portrait becomes a "fashion shot". This may be an oversimplification but the theory can be applied to any kind of image- landscape, still-life, wildlife, or just about any subject. The statement you image makes depends on a combination of all the aforementioned categories.
To me, a good composition exists when the images is succinct and impactful and will suffer if anythg is added or subtracted!
Then comes the ugly part- BUSINESS! Well- it can be the hard part. Even if you are creating masterpieces, you are still SELLING a product of sorts and presentation and packaging come into play.
Your prints have to be well crafted as to aesthetic and physical qualities. Some more technical boxes to chick off: Are the prints maximizing the content of the negative or file? Many poorly crafted prints escape quality control leaving vital information ad detail behind. What is the paper or printing material like? In low key or dark-moody prints, a surface that is too matte will kill your shadow detail. Are you offering canvas prints for tradition decor or metal prings for modern decorative approaches? Not all of your potential clients are aficionados of fine art and may just want some nice to match their furniture. Others may be more appreciative of the content. Have you considered fine picture framing?
The come the intangibles and variable - mood, romance, image impact, style,
You gotta be different! Folks can buy "pictures" to take up wall
space at Walmart or IKEA so your marketing has to be more unique as to the content, style, and presentation. You need to work on a business and marketing plan. It does not have to be a vast eternal monstrous corporate undertaking. It's just a matter of determining your client base, where and how you will sell your stuff, and what kinds of content will appeal to that market. You need to plan the financial aspects or you won't turn a decent profit. You need to create a price structure based on costs of sales, overhead expenses, and a decent profit margin.
In my own business, I do mainly commercial photography but I do sell some landscape pieces- mainly to my corporate clients for office decor or someone's occasion home decor project. From time to time, I display some of my esoteric stuff in my showroom and tit usually gets sold. You may want to check in with local galleries, shops that cater to tourists, or you may consider a higher-end crafts fair. Perhaps a local bank or other institution will allow you to display some of your pieces as a temporary traveling exhibit. If you create such an exhibit, show different sizes and formats such as perhaps panoramas, and both traditional and odd formats in various presentations and styles. This can work as good market research to see what garners interest and what will eventually sell.
One more tip- My once-year process! Around this time of year, I look over all my work and try to fine UNIQUE images for new portfolio samples, stuff to enter into association competitions, etc. I me things that are not too derivative, not kinda “picture postcards”, not too “bread and butter”, not too much sameness! BAD NEWS, I used to score 4 on a good year, nowadays I am lucky to score 1. Nonetheless, I still try and hope that next year I will do better. This is my best advice for choosing and culling images. It's a bit of a head-game I play with myself but it does keep me on my game and when I go out on a shoot, or take in a studio job, the game is always in the back of my mind- “Is this gonna be the shot”???
PS.. I am a big advocate of constructive critiquing. At first, that's how first I learned my trade- being critiqued (every day) by the boss and the senior photographer at my first studio job. It's a great teaching/learning tool when approached properly with an open mind.
I hope this helps. Happy New Year and best of luck in your venture!
Whenever the subject of critique comes up on this forum, things usually get controversial. Some folks ask for critiques but they are really only after praise and when they hear negative comments, they become disappointed, combative, or just become anticlimactic and say "I really wanted all the defects or mistakes you pointed out- I like those" kinda thing. Others respond well and take the advice under advisement.
Many argue that there are no standards or rules that apply to ART and if you are going to engage in any kind of critiquing that approach becomes very problematic. There are no carved in stone commandments that apply to artistic photography but if you are going to engage in your own quality control or critique others' work there has to be some criteria or language that can be used to communicate your interpretations. So many folks, well-meaningfully advise to go with your heart, your "eye" your mind or you instincts- all very nice, romantic and artsy, but in all my years of training photographers and presenting classes, I find that most folks prefer definitive answers- at least as starting points.
Imagine, a person decides he or she wants to become a professional musician- they have been dabbling in music, probably have some talents, and decided to go to a well-respected teacher to take master classes, get some mentoring and refine their skills. I doubt very much if the teacher is gonna say “sit down at a pipe organ or even pick up a piccolo, go at it and see what comes out and if it sounds OK, go with it”. There are going to be discussions and practice of harmony, pitch, chord structure, scales, ear-training, phrasing, finite technicalities, expression and interpretation a whole lot more. It's not just a matter of operating the instrument and pressing the right keys.
So...I assume you know your camera and the basic methodologies- you know what buttons to press and which dials to turn. You know how to post-process, print and frame or present your work. To provide yourself with the quality control you need to set up basic criteria, here's my list- you can alter it as required- you can "check off the boxes" and after a while, you will instantly know which images to cull, which images to prepare for sales, which images to improve upon, etc.
Technica prerequisites: exposure, range, detail, and focus.
Color and/or tone: color harmony or purposeful disharmony, gray-scale, contrast, range, gradations, and key.
Composition: use of space, balance, use of lines, perspective, patterns, geometry, point of interest, lack of distraction or clutter, and ask yourself, where does the viewer's eye go to first and is the motif of your image in that place.
Does your image tell a story or make a statement about the subject?
Is the story clear or complex? For example, Suppose I make a "portrait" of a young lady n a dark dress against a fairly dark background- the simple statement is "Young Lady"! Same shot but the young lady is wearing a Day-Glo orange dress, the statement may change to "a bright orange dress with a young lady in it" and the portrait becomes a "fashion shot". This may be an oversimplification but the theory can be applied to any kind of image- landscape, still-life, wildlife, or just about any subject. The statement you image makes depends on a combination of all the aforementioned categories.
To me, a good composition exists when the images is succinct and impactful and will suffer if anythg is added or subtracted!
Then comes the ugly part- BUSINESS! Well- it can be the hard part. Even if you are creating masterpieces, you are still SELLING a product of sorts and presentation and packaging come into play.
Your prints have to be well crafted as to aesthetic and physical qualities. Some more technical boxes to chick off: Are the prints maximizing the content of the negative or file? Many poorly crafted prints escape quality control leaving vital information ad detail behind. What is the paper or printing material like? In low key or dark-moody prints, a surface that is too matte will kill your shadow detail. Are you offering canvas prints for tradition decor or metal prings for modern decorative approaches? Not all of your potential clients are aficionados of fine art and may just want some nice to match their furniture. Others may be more appreciative of the content. Have you considered fine picture framing?
The come the intangibles and variable - mood, romance, image impact, style,
You gotta be different! Folks can buy "pictures" to take up wall
space at Walmart or IKEA so your marketing has to be more unique as to the content, style, and presentation. You need to work on a business and marketing plan. It does not have to be a vast eternal monstrous corporate undertaking. It's just a matter of determining your client base, where and how you will sell your stuff, and what kinds of content will appeal to that market. You need to plan the financial aspects or you won't turn a decent profit. You need to create a price structure based on costs of sales, overhead expenses, and a decent profit margin.
In my own business, I do mainly commercial photography but I do sell some landscape pieces- mainly to my corporate clients for office decor or someone's occasion home decor project. From time to time, I display some of my esoteric stuff in my showroom and tit usually gets sold. You may want to check in with local galleries, shops that cater to tourists, or you may consider a higher-end crafts fair. Perhaps a local bank or other institution will allow you to display some of your pieces as a temporary traveling exhibit. If you create such an exhibit, show different sizes and formats such as perhaps panoramas, and both traditional and odd formats in various presentations and styles. This can work as good market research to see what garners interest and what will eventually sell.
One more tip- My once-year process! Around this time of year, I look over all my work and try to fine UNIQUE images for new portfolio samples, stuff to enter into association competitions, etc. I me things that are not too derivative, not kinda “picture postcards”, not too “bread and butter”, not too much sameness! BAD NEWS, I used to score 4 on a good year, nowadays I am lucky to score 1. Nonetheless, I still try and hope that next year I will do better. This is my best advice for choosing and culling images. It's a bit of a head-game I play with myself but it does keep me on my game and when I go out on a shoot, or take in a studio job, the game is always in the back of my mind- “Is this gonna be the shot”???
PS.. I am a big advocate of constructive critiquing. At first, that's how first I learned my trade- being critiqued (every day) by the boss and the senior photographer at my first studio job. It's a great teaching/learning tool when approached properly with an open mind.
I hope this helps. Happy New Year and best of luck in your venture!
Dec 29, 2019 15:37:40 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I think that "self-critique" is a border... (show quote)
That was great! Thank you.
Dec 29, 2019 15:57:01 #
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Fantastic insights and advice from a working pro. Thank you, Ed!I think that "self-critique" is a border... (show quote)
Dec 29, 2019 18:01:34 #
alberio wrote:
I have definitely seen the flaws in my older photos and sometimes wonder what I was thinking with the settings or composition.
Agree, when I became serious about taking photos, not just snapshots and with thought, I started printing and created a book of my "best work". That was a whopping 5 months ago 😁. The photos I take now I see a huge difference, I know in 6 months or a year from now it will be even better.
Dec 29, 2019 23:00:40 #
I am an artist and I love photography as well. I do not critique either as I learned long ago that every one can be a critic. I do my best to see each with the creators eye and enjoy them without qualifications. To me art is art and should be shared and enjoyed, it is a life-long journey and hopefully we get better as we go. Yes, some are outstanding and others not so much, however, they represent where we are in our journey and Some make us feel good, some make us happy or sad, others are just fun, some give us something to ponder.
Dec 30, 2019 00:23:27 #
alberio wrote:
Because I've never considered my photos good enough to sell, I sometimes enjoy posting them with the hope they are good enough that some will enjoy a view that they would not normally see. When there is critical reviews I try my best to learn and fine tune my technique. Thank you UHH for this site.
I'm right there with you Alberio...I feel the exact same way.
Dec 30, 2019 00:44:29 #
I think the "to hell with what they think" perspective is stupid. I do a lot of professional writing and NOTHING leaves my desk without being proof read by at least two other scientists. And every journal has at least reviewers go through the article. Their input is invaluable even though I do not always agree. Inevitably they see things I over looked. When I post photos on UHH I always solicit C&C for the same reason. Sure, it doesn't usually make you feel good, but "too much shadow under the eyes" is more helpful than "nice photo". So by all means, ignore what others think and keep making the same mistakes.
Dec 30, 2019 10:40:27 #
spraguead
Loc: Boston, MA
Kbelz67 wrote:
What is your process for critiquing your own photo... (show quote)
Get involved with a local art association. Attend their events, see what other "professionals" are producing for images. Judge your work against theirs.
When you have self critiqued to that next level, enter critiqued competitions, this will let you know where you stand with others.
When you're really ready to have your ego assaulted, go to gallery owners that sell photo works. They'll tell you rather abruptly where you stand.
But don't be afraid of failure, as an artist, you surely will. But if you are to be a successful artist, you'll persevere.
Dec 30, 2019 11:31:33 #
When I was in Photography school, the hardest class was Editoral Photography taught by an ex-AP journalism photographer from the Washington Post then Life Magazine. Each week we had an assignment of 25 frames from which we were to select 5 for a "story". No processing allowed except for cropping. From those 5, select 1 for the "cover" photo. These were displayed to the class which critiqued the entire batch and did the same selection from your photos. It was intense. No one was allowed to say "I like this one" or "I don't like that" without an explanation. And the explanation given was part of how each of us was graded on the assignment.
Dec 30, 2019 11:35:14 #
Creativity is allowing yourself to make mistakes. Art is knowing which images to keep.
Jan 2, 2020 00:13:37 #
Kbelz67 wrote:
What is your process for critiquing your own photo... (show quote)
If you don't trust your own judgment, show your images to friends or colleagues whose aesthetic sense you trust, and get feedback.
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.