srt101fan

Interesting! I knew they could lock you out of sections of UHH but not categories of posts, such as those from newbies....

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

Seriously BebulLamar, "proven" can be a perception, too. I was trained that facts and logic-based reason were proof. I cannot think of any "proofs" of my point (not me, but the point I was holding) being proven wrong. If you can, and don't want to continue in this thread, feel free to PM me my position, where it was proven wrong, and my unwillingness to accept a fact or a reasoning. This is important to me, and not for what others think, believe it or not.

I do appreciate your opinion that silencing someone is wrong.

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

I think I get your point. It's the moderators show, of course, but babying people generally hurts them ultimately. For that reason, and the ideal of seeking knowledge and understanding based on fact and reasoning, I will not conform to empty opinions.

As it appears you have noticed, the "nice" people are very abrasive to the people they don't like. Ah, the hazards of being in the human running race! 😊

User ID

That is similar to the moddy's PM to
me ... except that it was made very
clear that I did nothing to make any
newbies feel unwelcome. IOW, they
were plainly welcome to join, and to
stay and to see occasional sparks fly
... between other members.

Anywho, bottom line, moddy made it
plain that the concern is what goes on
between members and not anything
directed at any newbie. I have no way
of knowing if other parties to heated
discussions are also banned from any
replying to newbie-authored threads.
Either or neither is same to me :-)

Darkroom317 Loc: Mishawaka, IN

As someone who currently in their 2nd year of a 3 year MFA, I find your second sentence to be a massive understatement. The comments in our MFA critiques if said on here would likely get one banned from this site entirely. As a result I generally keep my mouth shut and don't bother critiquing on here. If I do, it is highly moderated.

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

Understood. BTW, as I look back on those years, I recall the saying among the older artists we knew, "It'll take you five years to unlearn what you learned in graduate school." A bit overstated, but the heated up atmosphere and speeded-up development needed for the thesis show did have to be unwound a bit when my friends and I hit the "real world." Still, it was a great experience, and I hope you are mostly enjoying yours.

Bill_de Loc: US

Sorry, I did realize that.
But if there was friction between current members it could seem like an unwelcoming place.
I'm not saying you were the cause of the friction, I never saw those threads. Apparently somebody did and the Admin agreed with them.

I had belonged to a Nature Photography forum for many years. The biggest arguments were usually over composition or how green the grass should be. This kind of stuff was never a part of it.

--

CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

The grass is always greener when captured with a mirrorless camera.

srt101fan

I like zoysia; but I suspect even a mirrorless camera can't keep it from turning brown in the winter....

Bill_de Loc: US

This can:

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B010OU2DZU/ref=sspa_dk_detail_0?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B010OU2DZU&pd_rd_w=UMhxb&pf_rd_p=45a72588-80f7-4414-9851-786f6c16d42b&pd_rd_wg=p1fBP&pf_rd_r=0GX5EV8ZQ255TF3RSRA1&pd_rd_r=f64f4fe8-2d4b-44e3-a8ca-9c7f0243908f&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUFVRU84SUY4VFk5SyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRJZD1BMDk5NzAzNE9OMTQ4UUJKSkRHUCZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMzQyMzQzM0pOVlpWSkdORUNWTCZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

---

srt101fan

Ha! Ha!....I think brown is OK.

Rolk Loc: South Central PA

I'm sorry, Bob, but I have to agree with Mr. Graham Smith. I got the same impression when I read your remarks; it just seems to me that you truly have a difficult time accepting any responsibility for your words and in this case, you continue to push all of the blame on someone else instead of shouldering it yourself. And then to say Graham's statement was "logical nonsense" is further proof of how condescending some of your remarks can be.

On one of your previous replies you stated that you thought R.E. should apologize to you first? Why? He's the moderator; he makes the rules. If it were I who was banned, I would have immediately let R.E. know I was extremely sorry that my actions offended anyone and that I would do everything I could to abide by the rules in the future.

Rongnongno Loc: FL

Some of us do not like mirrors because it shows a really scary image of our own behavior.

Yet having the strength to look into one and at least try to change can make a difference.

Then again not everyone is willing to do that, especially when one feels 'under attack, 'being singled out'.

That is the sad truth of 'on line persona' (OLP) . In real lif (RL), even the worse OLP can be a nice person. It is not seen in a forum because we all lack what is the most important part of human communication: direct in person exchange. When one can see the eyes, the way one speaks, how involved or aloof a person is among many other things it changes the perception of what is being said.

It does not mean RL contact will allow anyone to make instant friends from an OLP. It just means we can make less errors and stop taking a mole hill for an in-climbable peak.

artBob Loc: Near Chicago

Thanks. I do not doubt your sincerity. However, I'd like to address your two main points

First, those who see the problem as being abrasive and not accepting responsibility are acting on their perception, their impression. No one of them, not one, has provided specific a example, much less several, that their impression is correct. They did not show a supposedly offending post in context of the preceding post. Others who have commented here have not perceived me as abrasive. So...perceptions and impressions...not conclusive.

Besides that, having a definite goal in my social actions, including writing here, of reciprocity, evaluations in my years of teaching, and sensitivity to being able to admit errors and apologize (also seen in other posts of mine, I think the moderator, who also offered no proof, was wrong. I only apologize, and have, for my wrongful acts. I do think he, Linda, Rongnongno, via the lens, and Graham have taken it personally and are acting irresponsibly, cutting me off from learning and helping good people here.

As an aside, as I think this over, I have a new understanding of the misperceptions. There are what I perceive (😊) as simple misperceptions, like yours, and what I see as misperceptions of personal, hateful orientation.

And, we are all in this bumptious human running race.

larryepage Loc: North Texas area

I normally do not enter discussions such as this one, and perhaps should not enter here...but here goes...

There are numerous professions which are well known for utilizing (what is now) an obsolete and debunked "hazing" approach to education...abusively working to convince the student that he is a completely worthless idiot before sharing some helpful information that might make him a little bit better. I'm sure that you have your own list, but mine includes commercial pilot, medical doctor, and several others. Several hobbies tend to follow the same approach, even though they aren't nearly as bad, including amateur radio, radio controlled airplanes, and model railroading.

There are two big differences, though. First, I have never seen or heard any doctor or pilot demean another in front of anyone else. The second is that I am unaware that any member of this forum has placed himself in a student/teacher relationship with anyone else on this forum. It is, by design and by nature, an association of peers.

When I enter a contest, I am placing myself iinto a special type of relationship with the judge. But I still expect to be treated with a measure of respect, especially if the judge's comments are made public to all. If I still posted images here, I would expect any comments to be made truthfully and respectfully.

The sad truth is that very few online communities are even the least bit "edifying." Even in the face of the "good" they claim. Fault doesn't matter. So any of my real questions about subject or composition or color palette will be discussed with my real live friends, who have proven themselves to be knowledgeable and honest, and who always offer excellent suggestions in kindness when I need to correct or improve something.

Life is too short, especially now, for mean-spirited discussion, regardless of the motivation.