Seabastes

Don't mind ! Thank you so very much.

Seabastes

Thank you so very much, you made an OK image stunning. I more than once have made the comment the day I stop learning is the day they plant me.

N4646W

Why spend the time? If we are going to get so off topic, one click in NX-2 will do the same or better with the jpeg the OP posted, a total of maybe 15 sec. The OP asked a specific question about Affinity, not DXO, ON-1, ect, ect. If you are an Affinity user, and you have played with it, it is an exceptionally strong raw processor. I"m still learning things that it will do that are not obvious. But, you have to learn how to make it work. It is not as simpalistic as the sliders in LR or DXO, but if you are willing to learn you can do what you do in other programs, maybe even better and with more precision.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

I didn't do it to extol the virtues of PhotoLab or as a criticism of the Develop persona. I'm not sure what his purpose was in displaying that dark and murky image, but I wanted to show him some of the possibilities for recovery. I didn't spend much time on it and I did indicate he could achieve something similar using the Develop and Photo personas.

By the way, I spent almost a month with the current version of Affinity on three different computers, with much of that time spent with the Develop Persona, trying to get the best from it. I did the same thing with a previous version. One of the joys of being a retired software developer is having the time to do this. I take my reviews of software very seriously and spend a lot of time learning the nuances before I feel competent enough to make any comments or recommendations.

I'm pretty confident I know Develop's capabilities. I'm a quick study when it comes to learning new software. Unfortunately I no longer have a copy of Affinity available, but will shortly sign up for another free trial using my wife's desktop this time. Develop is certainly not bad at what it does do, but it's the functional limitations and missing features that hamper it. I have to disagree with you about it being an "exceptionally strong raw processor". What are you comparing it against? I do have substantially more prior experience with Lightroom, Capture One Pro, ON1 and PhotoLab. I own, and use, the most current version of all of them except Lightroom. I stopped using Adobe products a while back.

N4646W

I apologize if I came across as confrontational. I too have a lot of the software you have listed, and tried every one that has a trial, but when I tried the Beta version of Affinity for windows I was intrigued. After the release of the official Windows version I have not upgraded any of my other software. My basic processing software is still NX-2, and I'm still learning all it is capable of. As far as Affinity goes, I won't be around long enough to explore all of its capabilities.

Ron

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

First no apology is necessary. We are just having a conversation. Second, I certainly hope you will be around to explore all of Affinity's vast capabilities. Affinity is a terrific all purpose post processing solution that meets the needs of a huge number of photographers, including pros, who for one reason or another do not wish to use Lightroom and PhotoShop. Any discussion of the limitations in the Develop persona does not diminish the overall power and value of Affinity Photo.

Seabastes

I went back and looked at the original I uploaded with my post, my original file done in Affinity and MWsilver's much improved rendition of my image. I discovered that the file I did in Affinity was between my murky image with my post and MWsilvers best of all rendition.

I can see that I have much to learn from help from MWSilvers and others here on UHH.

I will make a real effort to follow the good advise so kindly shared.

My immediate question is why would my original come up darker than my version on my monitor ? I have not calibrated my monitor for starters if that helps.

I truly appreciate your help.

An old dog, who plans to learn some new tricks.

Wanderer2 Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains

<<I regret that I am unable to get you to understand the difference between pointing out deficiencies in a component of a software program and criticising the whole program. And I don't view the Develop Persona as an integral part of the Affinity program in the way that you seem to.>>

In this case both "pointing out the deficiencies in a component" and "criticizing the whole program" were both done in the earlier posts in this thread. Stating that AP is not suitable for advanced users of photo editing programs, but only of low level amateurs (approximate wording), is certainly criticism of the entire program, as were some other statements.

How can the Develop Perana not be considered an integral part of the program, at least for processing RAW files? Every RAW file loaded into AP immediately and automatically begins to be processed in the Develop Persona (although that can be cancelled) to prepare it to be edited in the other Personas. I only process RAW files in AP and perhaps that's why you don't consider it an integral part of the program and I do. I'm not certain but I would guess that the great majority of AP users use it to process RAW files, given that it's features and capabilities are far beyond that needed for JPG files.

So there's no need for you to regret that you cannot make me understand this. It's not that I don't understand it, but rather that I have a differering opinion.

A lot of my time has been tied up the past few days researching for reviews on line of Affinity Photo to see if many describe the criticisms of the Develop Persona made in this thread. Thus far I haven't found any that discuss this specific aspect of the Develop Persona but have found some that are very positive, absolutely glowing, about the Program. The only one negative enough to state the writer would not personally use the program was because he found it too difficult to use, the opposite of how I have found it. I've been focusing on reviews in 2019 and as much as possible of those made after version 1.7.3.481 was introduced, which involves several new features and improvements. I hope anyone considering purchasing AP will also look at reviews done by objective reviewers.

mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey

The reviews you saw I assume were in regard to the entire Affinity Photo package. Of course they were good reviews. Its a terrific package at a terrific price. However, I'll bet not one of those reviews by any competent reviewer specifically compared just the features and functionality of the Develop persona in detail to any of the top competing raw converters/processors. If they had, perhaps you would realize you lack experience and understanding of how the best raw processors work and the advanced features they offer. If you understood this, we wouldn't be having this continuing conversation.

The Develop persona lacks the functionality and sophistication of the best raw processors. It is also missing some fundamental features available in almost all good raw processors. The most serious limitation is the inability to save raw edits in a database or sidecar file so the raw files can be re-edited at any time in the future without missing a beat. That is a a fundamental feature of a good raw editor. You should be able to go back to your raw file today, tomorrow, next week, next month or next year and continue with your edits where you left off. Develop does not support this very basic and fundamental raw processing feature.

It also does not support virtual copies, another fundamental feature of a good raw processor, which allows you to make and save multiple versions of your raw edits, also saved either in a database or sidecar file, which are applied on the fly to your original raw file in order to try different editing scenarios. Of course, the use of virtual copies in Develop would be meaningless because Develop doesn't save any of you raw edits anyway. They are discarded when you export to Photo with the baked in edits, so you can't go back. Develop also lacks other expected features in a top raw processor.

Perhaps the latest version of Develop has corrected some of its limitations. If so, please enlighten me. After you complete your raw edits and go to the Photo persona, if you decide you want to go back and change or add a raw edit in the Develop persona, how do you do it? Or do you have to start over from scratch? Once one accepts its limitations, Develop is an otherwise competent basic raw processor. Perhaps once Serif implements a DAM for Affinity Photo some of the Develop limitations will be addressed.

This is from the Affinity Forum from 2017. I don't think anything has changed since then. The bolding is mine. I hope we can finally end this discussion.

"Welcome to Affinity Forums :)
Affinity Photo for iPad (and also desktop) wasn't designed as a DAM / RAW Developer as Lightroom or Aperture. It doesn't manage libraries, don't save RAW settings to a XMP sidecar files (or to a database) nor apply the same settings from one image (RAW) to a group of images from the same set. It's more comparable to Photoshop + Adobe Camera RAW where you start with a RAW image in Adobe Camera RAW for global adjustments (shadow highlights recovery etc), move to Photoshop for further editing using the usual photo editing tools (channels, selections etc) and export the end result. You can work around some of these limitations using batch jobs/macros (in the desktop version) but the workflow is different from a true DAM software. We do intend to develop a DAM software later."

srt101fan

Hi Wanderer,
You've made your position clear and I understand where you're coming from. I have little experience with photo editing and am relatively new to RAW shooting. So I don't really have a basis for comparing Affinity with other programs. But I think highly of Affinity - unbeatable combination of price and capability!

Regarding some of your specific comments:

"How can the Develop Perana not be considered an integral part of the program, at least for processing RAW files? Every RAW file loaded into AP immediately and automatically begins to be processed in the Develop Persona (although that can be cancelled) to prepare it to be edited in the other Personas. I only process RAW files in AP and perhaps that's why you don't consider it an integral part of the program and I do. I'm not certain but I would guess that the great majority of AP users use it to process RAW files, given that it's features and capabilities are far beyond that needed for JPG files."

You seem to view editing in the Photo Persona as a lower level, secondary function of Affinity. I think it's by far the most important part of the program. I suspect many people post-process JPEGs and TIFFs. For example, I have started to scan my old film images. I am saving them as TIFFs and will edit them in Affinity's Photo Persona. I could be busy for a long time without ever going into the Develop Persona!

"I hope anyone considering purchasing AP will also look at reviews done by objective reviewers."

I don't view the criticisms raised by mwsilvers, Ysarex and others as being unfair to Affinity Photo. Ysarex has highlighted specific concerns he has with the Affinity DEVELOP Persona and has told us why it's not acceptable in the context of his workflow. Here's one of his posts re the inability to adjust HSL in the Develop module:

https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-603643-2.html#10375920

I'm not saying that I won't use the Affinity RAW developer. I don't know yet. I believe the negative comments raised by the critics are factual, accurate, and clearly important to them. But I'm not sure yet if they are relevant in MY photo-editing world! It's up to me to determine that.

And so what if I were to develop my RAW files in another program, like the one that came with my camera, and then post-process in the Affinity Photo Persona? What's the down side of that? Yes, the workflow would be smoother to do it all in one program. But I don't plan to post-process that many RAW files so transferring my files from one program to another is a very minor inconvenience for me.

Enjoy Affinity, a great program!

Wanderer2 Loc: Colorado Rocky Mountains

srt101fan,

I am amazed that you could conclude: "You seem to view editing in the Photo Persona as a lower level, secondary function of Affinity." I have no such thinking about AP and have never had any idea of ranking the Persona's in any order of importance but I have posted a quote from the Affinity Photo Workbook that the primary purpose of the Develop Persona is to prepare raw files for subsequent editing in the other Personas. The Photo Persona does indeed receive almost universally high praise from users and reviewers alike, as I'm finding in my still ongoing search of online AP reviews.

You state: "I could be busy for a long time without ever going into the Develop Persona!" Are you certain about that? AP does not obviously indicate when you enter a new Persona by selecting a tool that is in a different Persona than the one you were first using. The Workbook lists 7 tools (including the crop tool) that are in the Develop Persona on page 24 but then lists 14 more in the Basic Panel, Lens Panel, Details Panel, and Tones Panel, all in the Develop Persona, from PP 62-66. To add to the ease of confusion, the Crop Tool is also listed in the Photo Persona on page 18. And on page 90 it is stated "By default, Affinity Photo performs non-destructive (in bold print!) cropping, meaning the image information is retained even though it is cropped out of the composition." But, since it is claimed by some on this forum that the Develop Personal is destructive, perhaps the Crop Tool is not actually in the Develop Persona but rather the Photo Persona.

Regarding the criticism you mentioned by some of the HSL function, which I have never understood (the criticism that is), one of the reviews I read that is specifically about the changes made to HSL in the recently released version 1.7 of AP indicates this function has been improved in 1.7 How I don't know yet.

It's being very time consuming going through one online review of AP after another and I have limited time for it currently. I am finding it very educational, however. Perhaps I will have more to post at a later time. Btw, you indicate you are somewhat new to processing in general and to the Affinity Photo program specifically. I've found the Workbook very helpful and you might find it so also if you don't already have it.

I hope both of us will continue to enjoy Affinity Photo!

srt101fan

Intriguing idea, even though I'm not sure I fully understand it! I guess I'll have to try it....

You say to strip out the Develop presets by going to "Properties". I can't find anything there that relates to presets. Are you talking about the settings for the Develop Assistant accessed via the Assistant Manager button on the Tool Bar?

srt101fan

"....You state: "I could be busy for a long time without ever going into the Develop Persona!" Are you certain about that?...."

If you only want to edit JPEGs and TIFFs you don't need the Develop Persona at all. As I said, I am currently busy scanning film negatives. I save the scans as TIFFs, there are no RAW files to process, and I won't be using the Develop Persona until I get back to processing my camera RAW files.