Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Full Frame vs Crop Example
Page <<first <prev 6 of 16 next> last>>
Oct 27, 2019 23:18:32   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
AndyH wrote:
Yep. I accepted that limitation when I decided on the crop sensor format. Three years later, I'm still quite satisfied with my choice. If I have to upgrade to FF to get enough speed for my needs, the extra weight and expense is a penalty I'm prepared to pay. Until I need it, I'm still quite happy. The grass is always greener for some, but I'm pretty happy with my own lawn.

Andy


And that is all that matters

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 06:05:30   #
spywayman Loc: Bridport -Dorset-UK
 
I can't help it, but I smell nitpicking.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 07:02:54   #
SteveG Loc: Norh Carolina
 
selmslie wrote:
We can argue the question and disagree all day but we can't settle the issue until we actually do a direct comparison.

In the next post I will display two images taken with a Nikon Df (full frame) with a Tamron SP 35mm f/1.8 and a Fuji X100T (APS-C) with its fixed 23mm (35mm equivalent) f/2 lens. Both were taken at ISO 200 1/1000 @ f.8.

The two JPEG SOOC images had slightly different brightness levels (the clouds were moving) so I brought the two raw files into Capture One and used "Auto Adjust all Selected Variants" to get them as close as possible. This applied slightly different Exposure, Highlight and Level adjustments but did nothing to Clarity or Structure.

I wanted to see if there was a difference in resolution or other quality. There should be a tiny difference in DOF because the hyperfocal distance for the Fuji is about a meter closer to the camera.
We can argue the question and disagree all day bu... (show quote)


Personally, I have battled with this question as a Sony man. Going from various models. In the end, at least to my eye, in certain situations, I can definitely detect a difference in the dynamic range, at least with my Sonys. This example may not offer that. Images with a lot of changes in color difference and especially with DOF when required has led me down the full frame path. Of course I use legacy primes for "those special" wall hangers and the difference there, to me at least is discernible. For me, and this is for me, if I feel I'm leaving anything on the table with a finished image I'll go nuts as to why I didn't use my A7II. Of course I love the IBIS! But for most images, the crop, and even M4/3rds do a terrific job. Besides, my Sony is actually smaller,I believe than most of the top brand crop sensor cameras like Canon and Nikon.

Reply
 
 
Oct 28, 2019 07:19:01   #
drharveys Loc: Holly Springs, NC
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him a crop-sensor camera.


Great quote!

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 07:35:06   #
alberio Loc: Casa Grande AZ
 
selmslie wrote:
Here are the two images after development in Capture One. Please download them both and compare them at the same magnification to see if you can tell them apart. So far I can see a slight difference in the chromatic aberration (along the white fences) for the smaller lens but not much else of significance. I would expect that both images could be printed at 12x18 inches and you might not be able to tell them apart.


Maybe it's my viewing screen, but the white fence in front of the house on the far right has a distinct difference between the two cameras when zoomed in to 100%. I can see other differences at different distances, some better for the crop, some better for the full frame. Maybe focusing or maybe my screen is interpreting the files differently.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 07:36:12   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
SteveG wrote:
Personally, I have battled with this question as a Sony man. Going from various models. In the end, at least to my eye, in certain situations, I can definitely detect a difference in the dynamic range, at least with my Sonys. This example may not offer that. ....

I deliberately highlighted resolution as the object of this test by selecting a scene with a relatively narrow dynamic range where there is plenty of light and most of the values are close to middle gray. This scene is a lot like most daylight landscapes in good weather.

But you are correct in saying that a scene with a wider dynamic range calls for a camera that can collect more light. Just looking at the size of the front lens elements in the side-by-side image of the two cameras you can tell that the Tamron is going to collect a lot more light. And we know that larger pixels will do a better job with the larger range of luminance values.

If I had instead used a 24 MP Fuji X100F I would have compared it to the A7 II or the D610. I expect that we would have seen the same comparison of resolution and sharpness as we see here with the 16MP test. But a test with a darker or wider DR subject at ISO 1600 would also have revealed the DR and noise advantage of the full frame format.

Incidentally, the X-Trans sensor in the X100T has no Optical Low Pass Filter filter. That narrows the sharpness gap between it and the Df and many others that use an AA filter. One theory was that the X-Trans array would not be as vulnerable to moiré but that does not appear to be the case.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 07:45:52   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
alberio wrote:
Maybe it's my viewing screen, but the white fence in front of the house on the far right has a distinct difference between the two cameras when zoomed in to 100%. I can see other differences at different distances, some better for the crop, some better for the full frame. Maybe focusing or maybe my screen is interpreting the files differently.

There is a little more chromatic aberration and a little less sharpness at the far right in the Fuji image than in the Df/Tamron image but this is mainly because of the difference in the lenses, not the sensor size.

Reply
 
 
Oct 28, 2019 07:57:01   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Kind of like the wind...

selmslie wrote:
That's the point. If you can't see it, it doesn't exist.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 08:01:46   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
selmslie wrote:
We can argue the question and disagree all day but we can't settle the issue until we actually do a direct comparison.

In the next post I will display two images taken with a Nikon Df (full frame) with a Tamron SP 35mm f/1.8 and a Fuji X100T (APS-C) with its fixed 23mm (35mm equivalent) f/2 lens. Both were taken at ISO 200 1/1000 @ f.8.

The two JPEG SOOC images had slightly different brightness levels (the clouds were moving) so I brought the two raw files into Capture One and used "Auto Adjust all Selected Variants" to get them as close as possible. This applied slightly different Exposure, Highlight and Level adjustments but did nothing to Clarity or Structure.

I wanted to see if there was a difference in resolution or other quality. There should be a tiny difference in DOF because the hyperfocal distance for the Fuji is about a meter closer to the camera.
We can argue the question and disagree all day bu... (show quote)


Not really a FAIR comparison. A FAIR comparison would be the same lens on a FF and Cropped sensor camera. Like comparing the results of a Nikon 28 mm 1.8 on a D500 and D750/D610.
The mp would also have to be close to the same.
But, all comparisons aside, generally speaking, the FF image will be better than a cropped sensor camera. You can compare until your worn out, but, the results will be the same, FF wins, every time. Been there, done that.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 08:07:06   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
A home run is worth more than two doubles. So is a full frame camera.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 08:16:58   #
alberio Loc: Casa Grande AZ
 
selmslie wrote:
There is a little more chromatic aberration and a little less sharpness at the far right in the Fuji image than in the Df/Tamron image but this is mainly because of the difference in the lenses, not the sensor size.


Thanks for the response, I was wondering about the difference in lenses also.

Reply
 
 
Oct 28, 2019 08:53:00   #
47greyfox Loc: on the edge of the Colorado front range
 
I often default to my FF combination since I often crop to get to the composition I’m looking for. Plus, i record the effort on Strava as exercise.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 08:57:58   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Possibly but not clearly...it depends... If the bases are empty then two doubles is better than a home run. It likely scores a run and puts another in scoring position.

CHG_CANON wrote:
A home run is worth more than two doubles. So is a full frame camera.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 09:03:18   #
Low Budget Dave
 
In good light, with a stationary subject, and a large depth of field, most people will not be able to tell the difference between a full frame camera and a cell phone.

Much less APSC.

Reply
Oct 28, 2019 09:05:09   #
mflowe Loc: Port Deposit, MD
 
selmslie wrote:
Not if you shoot close to base ISO and can't see any.

It's not an issue if you can't see it.


And if I was George Soros's son, I'd be rich. But I'm not and we always don't shoot at base ISO.

Reply
Page <<first <prev 6 of 16 next> last>>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.