Strange problem with macro lens.
Oct 21, 2019 09:18:07 #
Two thoughts, both related to why heat might build enough to trigger Canon's auto shutdown to protect circuits. One would be to ask if you are shooting live view? As the exposed sensor could theoretically make heat build over time, second if the af motor is seeking continuously in one camera, either because you have continuous focus turned on or because the af mode is always seeking a target, things could theoretically heat up. Both just guesses. You said you focused manually, so I guess that eliminates the second idea. Look for ways heat might build over time.
Oct 21, 2019 09:55:37 #
amfoto1
Loc: San Jose, Calif. USA
I think it's most likely just that macro lenses can struggle to autofocus (a lot of macro shooters simply use manual focus instead.... which would be turned off at the lens, in these cases).
I don't have 6DII, but other Canon I have provide a user-settable "focus priority versus shutter priority" adjustment in the camera's menu. Set to strong focus priority can prevent the camera from allowing a photo to be taken until focus has been achieved. It will seem like a delay or even as if the camera is refusing to work.
Compound this with the extremely shallow depth of field of close-up work, the slower focusing design of macro lenses and it's more likely for this to occur with a macro lens, than with any other typed.
It's possible you've got "focus/shutter priority" set very high for focus on the 6DII and low on the 90D, which would explain why they two cameras work differently and why the 6DII does the same thing with two different macro lenses.
Again, I don't have 6DII and don't know for certain it has that "focus/shutter priority" like my 7DII do. My cameras actually have several instances of it... One rules how the first image in a burst in AI Servo is handled... Another rules how the 2nd and all subsequent shots in AI Servo are handled.... And a third menu item rules how focus/shutter priority is handled in One Shot focus mode. I have little use for unfocused images, so have all these set very strongly biased toward "focus". (I suppose a photojournalist charged with "getting the shot" regardless of focus accuracy might set the camera the opposite what I've done.)
Most of the time I don't even notice this working. But it does occasionally prevent the shutter from releasing, as if the camera isn't working, although it actually is doing exactly what I've got it set to do and want it to do.
This isn't exactly a "focus trap" method (available on some other cameras, but not on Canon DSLRs AFAIK)... but it's similar. A "real" focus trap would completely prevent the shutter from releasing until autofocus is achieved. With this Canon prioritization it doesn't completely prevent shutter release when not focused.
Setting the camera's main mode dial to "manual" (M) will have no effect on this. That's manual exposure... Not manual focusing. On most Canon cameras and lenses (certainly the two macro lenses mentioned), use the switch on the lens itself to turn off autofocus and use manual focus. (You mention that "setting the camera to manual" made no difference.... this is just to clarify that, in case there's a misunderstanding.)
Another possibility... make sure the lenses' "Focus Limiter" is set correctly. That may prevent camera and lens from achieving focus and taking a shot if set to the wrong range. Both the Canon macro and the Tamron macro lenses have Focus Limiters.
I agree with the idea of cleaning the electronic contacts on the lens (usually the corresponding pins in the camera don't need it). Communication between camera and lens is done use very low voltages, which are pretty easily interrupted. If you can't find industrial quality isopropyl alcohols... plain, cheap "rubbing alcohol" from the grocery store works fine to remove oils from those electronic contacts on the lens. Just use the alcohol very sparingly, using a few drops to slightly moisten a clean, ling free cloth... then wipe the contacts. DO NOT use anything abrasive. Those contacts are gold plated to prevent oxidization and you don't want to damage that. Some Canon docs suggest using a pencil eraser but I strongly disagree. For one, erasers shed little particles and I'd hate to see any of those get inside a camera where they might cause mechanisms to jam. But, possibly more importantly, usually the problem is oils on those contacts... maybe finger oils or from manufacturing or lubricating oils. Well, pencil erasers are made from vegetable oil! So they will do little to remove oil and might even make matters worse!
In my experience, probably 8 or 9 out of 10 "camera problems" or "lens problems" actually are "user errors"... lack of understanding. The gear is surprisingly reliable. And it's extremely complex, so very easy to set incorrectly or not fully understand how something works. Of course, this doesn't completely rule out the possibility that there's actually something wrong with the camera or lens. I just like to completely explore the rather strong possibility that I (or someone else) am doing something wrong, before returning an item as faulty or sending it for repair.
Note: I don't think the 6DII or any of the other more recent and current Canon have a "watch battery" that can be removed to "reboot" the camera. My 7DII (older than 6DII) certainly don't. I believe all Canon DSLRs have had a permanently installed "backup battery" right on the main board and not user-accessible for some years now (60D and onward?). Older cameras (such as my 5D Mark II, 50D and others) had a separate little battery that could be removed, along with the main battery, and after a few minutes reinstalled to cause the camera to "reboot" much like doing that to a computer. This was sometimes effective correcting firmware/settings related problems, since it returned the camera to factory default status (and will lose most or all the user's settings!). In fact, to confirm a successful "reboot" was accomplished, we'd check that the date and clock needed to be reset. If so, we knew that the reboot was done. If not, we had to try again (maybe leaving the batteries out longer).
But I don't think this is possible on 6DII. The little backup battery (sometimes called the "date/time battery", because it maintains those while the camera is turned off or the main battery is removed) is now permanently installed inside the camera. It is a recharged regularly by the main camera battery.
I don't have 6DII, but other Canon I have provide a user-settable "focus priority versus shutter priority" adjustment in the camera's menu. Set to strong focus priority can prevent the camera from allowing a photo to be taken until focus has been achieved. It will seem like a delay or even as if the camera is refusing to work.
Compound this with the extremely shallow depth of field of close-up work, the slower focusing design of macro lenses and it's more likely for this to occur with a macro lens, than with any other typed.
It's possible you've got "focus/shutter priority" set very high for focus on the 6DII and low on the 90D, which would explain why they two cameras work differently and why the 6DII does the same thing with two different macro lenses.
Again, I don't have 6DII and don't know for certain it has that "focus/shutter priority" like my 7DII do. My cameras actually have several instances of it... One rules how the first image in a burst in AI Servo is handled... Another rules how the 2nd and all subsequent shots in AI Servo are handled.... And a third menu item rules how focus/shutter priority is handled in One Shot focus mode. I have little use for unfocused images, so have all these set very strongly biased toward "focus". (I suppose a photojournalist charged with "getting the shot" regardless of focus accuracy might set the camera the opposite what I've done.)
Most of the time I don't even notice this working. But it does occasionally prevent the shutter from releasing, as if the camera isn't working, although it actually is doing exactly what I've got it set to do and want it to do.
This isn't exactly a "focus trap" method (available on some other cameras, but not on Canon DSLRs AFAIK)... but it's similar. A "real" focus trap would completely prevent the shutter from releasing until autofocus is achieved. With this Canon prioritization it doesn't completely prevent shutter release when not focused.
Setting the camera's main mode dial to "manual" (M) will have no effect on this. That's manual exposure... Not manual focusing. On most Canon cameras and lenses (certainly the two macro lenses mentioned), use the switch on the lens itself to turn off autofocus and use manual focus. (You mention that "setting the camera to manual" made no difference.... this is just to clarify that, in case there's a misunderstanding.)
Another possibility... make sure the lenses' "Focus Limiter" is set correctly. That may prevent camera and lens from achieving focus and taking a shot if set to the wrong range. Both the Canon macro and the Tamron macro lenses have Focus Limiters.
I agree with the idea of cleaning the electronic contacts on the lens (usually the corresponding pins in the camera don't need it). Communication between camera and lens is done use very low voltages, which are pretty easily interrupted. If you can't find industrial quality isopropyl alcohols... plain, cheap "rubbing alcohol" from the grocery store works fine to remove oils from those electronic contacts on the lens. Just use the alcohol very sparingly, using a few drops to slightly moisten a clean, ling free cloth... then wipe the contacts. DO NOT use anything abrasive. Those contacts are gold plated to prevent oxidization and you don't want to damage that. Some Canon docs suggest using a pencil eraser but I strongly disagree. For one, erasers shed little particles and I'd hate to see any of those get inside a camera where they might cause mechanisms to jam. But, possibly more importantly, usually the problem is oils on those contacts... maybe finger oils or from manufacturing or lubricating oils. Well, pencil erasers are made from vegetable oil! So they will do little to remove oil and might even make matters worse!
In my experience, probably 8 or 9 out of 10 "camera problems" or "lens problems" actually are "user errors"... lack of understanding. The gear is surprisingly reliable. And it's extremely complex, so very easy to set incorrectly or not fully understand how something works. Of course, this doesn't completely rule out the possibility that there's actually something wrong with the camera or lens. I just like to completely explore the rather strong possibility that I (or someone else) am doing something wrong, before returning an item as faulty or sending it for repair.
Note: I don't think the 6DII or any of the other more recent and current Canon have a "watch battery" that can be removed to "reboot" the camera. My 7DII (older than 6DII) certainly don't. I believe all Canon DSLRs have had a permanently installed "backup battery" right on the main board and not user-accessible for some years now (60D and onward?). Older cameras (such as my 5D Mark II, 50D and others) had a separate little battery that could be removed, along with the main battery, and after a few minutes reinstalled to cause the camera to "reboot" much like doing that to a computer. This was sometimes effective correcting firmware/settings related problems, since it returned the camera to factory default status (and will lose most or all the user's settings!). In fact, to confirm a successful "reboot" was accomplished, we'd check that the date and clock needed to be reset. If so, we knew that the reboot was done. If not, we had to try again (maybe leaving the batteries out longer).
But I don't think this is possible on 6DII. The little backup battery (sometimes called the "date/time battery", because it maintains those while the camera is turned off or the main battery is removed) is now permanently installed inside the camera. It is a recharged regularly by the main camera battery.
Oct 21, 2019 11:09:11 #
will47 wrote:
I was using a new Canon 100mm L macro lens today when something happened that was very strange. I was using it on a Canon 6D Mark ll when after probably 6-8 shots in a row it would not work again.
After letting it sit for awhile it worked again but the same thing happened. The lens is only 3 days old, purchased new. The camera is only a few months old purchased from B & H. I put the lens on a new 90D and had no problems. Anyone have any ideas.
After letting it sit for awhile it worked again but the same thing happened. The lens is only 3 days old, purchased new. The camera is only a few months old purchased from B & H. I put the lens on a new 90D and had no problems. Anyone have any ideas.
Were you shooting in high speed continuous? If shooting full size RAWs the cache can get filled up rapidly, depending on the type of card you may be using. If I have to shoot more than eight or so images high speed, I usually switch to jpeg.
Oct 21, 2019 12:13:57 #
You don’t specifically say what “stops working” means. I’m gonna assume it’s not focusing. It can be pretty common for a macro to “focus hunt”. I don’t know much about Canon lenses, but my macros all have range limiters that you can set to limit the range it will focus in. It can really help. Of course the flip side is that if you have it set and your subject is outside that range it will never focus.
Oct 21, 2019 12:59:04 #
will47 wrote:
I was using a new Canon 100mm L macro lens today when something happened that was very strange. I was using it on a Canon 6D Mark ll when after probably 6-8 shots in a row it would not work again.
After letting it sit for awhile it worked again but the same thing happened. The lens is only 3 days old, purchased new. The camera is only a few months old purchased from B & H. I put the lens on a new 90D and had no problems. Anyone have any ideas.
After letting it sit for awhile it worked again but the same thing happened. The lens is only 3 days old, purchased new. The camera is only a few months old purchased from B & H. I put the lens on a new 90D and had no problems. Anyone have any ideas.
Dear Will47:
I too have a 6DMkII and though I have not experienced anything like you describe , I notice that it's AF is sometimes a little slow and it's processor is also less than speedy when I am hurriedly scrolling through past shots to reexamine them in an enlarged view for sharpness,etc.
I would like to hear what you discover when you resolve your issues in this matter. It could actually be more than a single issue in play. So keep us posted on your adventure.
Thank Man !
Oct 21, 2019 13:35:09 #
Blair Shaw Jr wrote:
Dear Will47:
I too have a 6DMkII and though I have not experienced anything like you describe , I notice that it's AF is sometimes a little slow and it's processor is also less than speedy when I am hurriedly scrolling through past shots to reexamine them in an enlarged view for sharpness,etc.
I would like to hear what you discover when you resolve your issues in this matter. It could actually be more than a single issue in play. So keep us posted on your adventure.
Thank Man !
I too have a 6DMkII and though I have not experienced anything like you describe , I notice that it's AF is sometimes a little slow and it's processor is also less than speedy when I am hurriedly scrolling through past shots to reexamine them in an enlarged view for sharpness,etc.
I would like to hear what you discover when you resolve your issues in this matter. It could actually be more than a single issue in play. So keep us posted on your adventure.
Thank Man !
Will do. Too bad to go out today.
Oct 21, 2019 13:35:55 #
jackm1943 wrote:
Were you shooting in high speed continuous? If shooting full size RAWs the cache can get filled up rapidly, depending on the type of card you may be using. If I have to shoot more than eight or so images high speed, I usually switch to jpeg.
When doing macro I normally don't use HS.
Oct 21, 2019 14:28:07 #
will47 wrote:
When doing macro I normally don't use HS.
Just when I'm doing focus stacks which can require 30-50 images. I turn the focus ring while shooting away. It works well but I have to shoot jpeg. When doing motorcycle races which require only 3-5 images at a time, I use HS with RAW.
Oct 22, 2019 07:08:26 #
will47 wrote:
I was using a new Canon 100mm L macro lens today when something happened that was very strange. I was using it on a Canon 6D Mark ll when after probably 6-8 shots in a row it would not work again.
After letting it sit for awhile it worked again but the same thing happened. The lens is only 3 days old, purchased new. The camera is only a few months old purchased from B & H. I put the lens on a new 90D and had no problems. Anyone have any ideas.
After letting it sit for awhile it worked again but the same thing happened. The lens is only 3 days old, purchased new. The camera is only a few months old purchased from B & H. I put the lens on a new 90D and had no problems. Anyone have any ideas.
This is so weird. The SAME thing happened to me two days ago. I was trying to use my 100 mm L macro lens to take a picture of a ladybug on my 6DMII. I shot maybe 15 pictures and then it locked up. It wouldn’t let me take a picture and my back screen stayed on. If I shut my camera off or pulled my battery out, the problem went away. Then I turned the camera back on, shot a few more pics, and it locked up on me again too. I put the lens on my crop camera and haven’t had a problem.
Oct 22, 2019 09:18:59 #
will47 wrote:
Have not updated. I will clean the contacts. The big question I have is why the 90D is fine and the 6D Mll isn't.. And why I can get some shots out of it before it stops.
Sounds like a camera electronic overheating issue. Does it happen with a similar lens on the same camera?
Oct 22, 2019 09:27:13 #
stenojj wrote:
This is so weird. The SAME thing happened to me two days ago. I was trying to use my 100 mm L macro lens to take a picture of a ladybug on my 6DMII. I shot maybe 15 pictures and then it locked up. It wouldn’t let me take a picture and my back screen stayed on. If I shut my camera off or pulled my battery out, the problem went away. Then I turned the camera back on, shot a few more pics, and it locked up on me again too. I put the lens on my crop camera and haven’t had a problem.
That's exactly what happened to me. Switch to crop sensor, no problem. What can this be?
Oct 22, 2019 09:28:05 #
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
Sounds like a camera electronic overheating issue. Does it happen with a similar lens on the same camera?
So far only with macro, and only on my ff camera.
Oct 22, 2019 09:35:08 #
will47 wrote:
That's exactly what happened to me. Switch to crop sensor, no problem. What can this be?
Again, were you shooting in high speed continuous? With my 6D2 I can get only about a dozen full size RAWs before the cache fills up and the camera essentially stops to catch up.
Oct 22, 2019 09:53:28 #
jackm1943 wrote:
Again, were you shooting in high speed continuous? With my 6D2 I can get only about a dozen full size RAWs before the cache fills up and the camera essentially stops to catch up.
I always shoot in RAW but never continuous hi speed or not. And I shoot large RAW. But, I did think of the cache thing. The other night, at home, I put a 24-70mm Tamron on the 6D paying no attention to any quality and mostly focusing on a TV I shot away on high speed continuous and did NOT have a problem.
Oct 22, 2019 10:15:28 #
will47 wrote:
I always shoot in RAW but never continuous hi speed or not. And I shoot large RAW. But, I did think of the cache thing. The other night, at home, I put a 24-70mm Tamron on the 6D paying no attention to any quality and mostly focusing on a TV I shot away on high speed continuous and did NOT have a problem.
Did you check the contacts in the 6D to see if there is any dust or deposits or discoloration on any of the pins that would signal a poor electrical connection & thus....an overheated connection possibly. And your memory card...is it fast enough to accommodate the processor perhaps...? I 'm just grasping at Straws obviously. And .......
Did you speak with Canon yet and were there any other registered complaints or similar discoveries or possible firmware updates made available as a result ?
Good Luck Will47
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