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Suggested Exercise -- "Is Equipment Important? "
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Oct 13, 2019 12:00:24   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
AndyH wrote:
I still shoot plenty with my D7100, and my wife uses hers exclusively. They do everything we need them to do, and we have a relatively full range of glass now, from 10mm to 300mm in DX format, and with fast macro and prime lenses. Could we improve our IQ by going full frame or buying more expensive lenses? Of course. But we'd rather spend the money on travel, printing, and other stuff.

I will say that I've enjoyed picking up the old film gear and actually shooting with it. I wouldn't try to use my Hasselblad to catch my quarterback grandson in action, but the pleasure of shooting a couple of rolls of film hasn't gone away after all these years.

Andy
I still shoot plenty with my D7100, and my wife us... (show quote)



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Oct 13, 2019 12:43:52   #
JD750 Loc: SoCal
 
I shoot with what I have and I tend to hang on to cameras unless there is a compelling reason to upgrade. When I upgraded my aging M43 DMC-G1 I was immediately struck by how much better my shooting experience was with the new camera (OM-D EM5 Mii). I was wondering why I waited so long. Now it was not IQ that was radically different but rather the experience with the EVF which immediately enabled me to capture better exposures.

I did not upgrade my DSLRs as newer versions are basically, incremental changes to functionality, and not like the big change in EVF quality that happened with mirrorless over the last few years.

IMHO image quality is 90% determined by the nut behind the lens and the lens. With digital, newer bodies provide newer sensors tech which can have an incremental effect on resolution and dynamic range. But that just makes the job a little easier. But by far the larger effect is the nut behind the lens and the lens.

"It's about the optics stupid" (I am not calling anyone stupid it's just a phrase).

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Oct 13, 2019 12:46:58   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Everything becomes clear when you see you need a new camera.

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Oct 13, 2019 13:01:49   #
Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York
 
Mac wrote:
My oldest camera is an Olympus OM-1 film camera which I no longer use. Like BebuLamar and CHG_CANON, my only DSLR is over 5 years old. Figure all of that in your vote total. Besides that, I think your exercise is silly.


I don't think this challenge is silly. IMHO, I think this exercise is an attempt to see how far we have progressed as photographers. By looking at the past, it shows us how we have progressed in our techniques. Cameras and technology included. I humbly disagree that this challenge is silly.
Imagine if you will, you have spent the last 20 years writing with a ball point pen. Now you are asked to write with a fountain pen. You will have a hard time keeping ink off your fingertips! This challenge is a good way to appreciate where we are now.

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Oct 13, 2019 13:51:26   #
Bill_de Loc: US
 
I went out yesterday with no camera and got no pictures.

I went out today with my oldest camera and got some pictures.

Next time out I'll take my newest camera and see what happens.

---

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Oct 13, 2019 14:54:57   #
larryepage Loc: North Texas area
 
Mac wrote:
My oldest camera is an Olympus OM-1 film camera which I no longer use. Like BebuLamar and CHG_CANON, my only DSLR is over 5 years old. Figure all of that in your vote total. Besides that, I think your exercise is silly.

Hi Mac. I don't think I can agree that this is a silly exercise, but it is offered with a light heart and absolutely no malice at all. My point is to hopefully remind us that progress is meaningful, and that we can and do benefit greatly from advances in design and execution.

My Fuji took beautiful 6 MP portraits and pretty decent landscapes. But it was no good at the railroad photography that was my primary interest, because it was almost completely incapable of capturing diagonal lines. And the four AA NiCad cells that powered it were good for slightly over 100 exposures on a good day. The rear display was just over an inch, and there were a total of three displays that required attention. It was a plastic camera that required almost half a minute to power up after the firmware update that allowed 4 GB CF cards. And the 18-70mm variable aperture Nikkor zoom was poorly constructed and incapable of delivering edge to edge sharpness because it could not hold all lens elements parallel.

I think sometimes it's easy to forget where we have come from and even maybe to be a little bit arrogant about our perceived abilities to overcome mechanical shortcomings. And oh, by the way, I think that the Fuji's highest available sensitivity was ISO 400. Not sure what the fastest shutter speed was (the camera is currently on loan and not immediately available to me). It captured beautiful images within its capabilities, but there's no way I would try to rely on it today. Way too much it just can't do.

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Oct 13, 2019 15:34:48   #
User ID
 
larryepage wrote:
In the two and a half years that I have been a member of this forum, there have been countless discussions around the importance of equipment, the relative importance of equipment, the non-importance of equipment, the serviceability of pinhole cameras, and other similar questions. There is currently an active discussion of this subject which is rapidly approaching 300 posts, has completely disrupted the dispositions of some of our normally calmest members, and has driven some of the rest of our number completely (or at least mostly) off the rails.

It is clear that a consensus on this topic is almost certainly unattainable, but the idea for an at least somewhat objective experiment to quantify (or at least qualify) a smidgeon of objectivity around this subject has come to mind.

The premise is really quite simple. It involves making the commitment to put away your latest, greatest, most favorite camera for three weeks. Instead, pull out your oldest operational camera (in my case a Fuji X3 Pro), and commit to using only that camera for the next three weeks. NO MATTER WHAT! At the end of the three weeks, you will be allowed to make an informed comment on the topic.

A couple of important notes here:

1. If you have sold or otherwise gotten rid of your older cameras, you have already voted.

2. If you refuse to try, or if you don't make it through all three weeks, your vote is automatically cast.

Of course, this works as well as a thought exercise as it does as an actual challenge. Have fun if you are willing. For the curious, I surrender right now.
In the two and a half years that I have been a mem... (show quote)


My vote is already cast, preemptively, cuz
all my cameras are somewhat similar ....
all in the 12 to 24MP range, all in a 1 to 7
years age range, and none are state of the
art, mostly midrange. And MOST important
of all, I use them all interchangeably, as if
differences don't matter ... cuz differences
barely matter except in "special purposes".
IOW, shelving the newer ones for a while
is not much different from my normal use
patterns anywho.

And so, here's a snap with basic model of
a 24MP camera using a 50 year old normal
lens, and 2 more using an old Sony 16MP
Nex-6 with its kit lens ... IOW, whatever I
grabbed on my way out the door:


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

Reply
 
 
Oct 13, 2019 16:11:42   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
larryepage wrote:
In the two and a half years that I have been a member of this forum, there have been countless discussions around the importance of equipment, the relative importance of equipment, the non-importance of equipment, the serviceability of pinhole cameras, and other similar questions. There is currently an active discussion of this subject which is rapidly approaching 300 posts, has completely disrupted the dispositions of some of our normally calmest members, and has driven some of the rest of our number completely (or at least mostly) off the rails.

It is clear that a consensus on this topic is almost certainly unattainable, but the idea for an at least somewhat objective experiment to quantify (or at least qualify) a smidgeon of objectivity around this subject has come to mind.

The premise is really quite simple. It involves making the commitment to put away your latest, greatest, most favorite camera for three weeks. Instead, pull out your oldest operational camera (in my case a Fuji X3 Pro), and commit to using only that camera for the next three weeks. NO MATTER WHAT! At the end of the three weeks, you will be allowed to make an informed comment on the topic.

A couple of important notes here:

1. If you have sold or otherwise gotten rid of your older cameras, you have already voted.

2. If you refuse to try, or if you don't make it through all three weeks, your vote is automatically cast.

Of course, this works as well as a thought exercise as it does as an actual challenge. Have fun if you are willing. For the curious, I surrender right now.
In the two and a half years that I have been a mem... (show quote)


I have spent years getting the best equipment combination for shooting wildlife in the wetlands of Florida. When I shoot I am always trying to out do my favorite image so far.
Why would I do as you suggested? It is counter productive to what I am trying to accomplish. Thanks but no thank you.

Reply
Oct 13, 2019 16:46:25   #
srt101fan
 
AndyH wrote:
While I can't literally do this (I need to use my D7100 for work), would I have to put away my ca 1970 Hasselblad 500c to use my ca 1935 Lieca IIIc to fulfill the assignment? Or could I substitute my ca1955 Rolleiflex 3.5 or ca 1936 Zeiss Super Ikonta? I'd pull out my old glass and brass plate camera, but it would take three weeks for the plates to arrive.

I think you can guess my position on the overall question from this response...

Andy


Leica IIIc! Ahh, yes! I have one of those but haven't used it in years. Always liked the sound of the shutter...so authoritative! Always thought of the camera as a small technological wonder....

Reply
Oct 13, 2019 16:58:36   #
Mac Loc: Pittsburgh, Philadelphia now Hernando Co. Fl.
 
larryepage wrote:
Hi Mac. I don't think I can agree that this is a silly exercise, but it is offered with a light heart and absolutely no malice at all. My point is to hopefully remind us that progress is meaningful, and that we can and do benefit greatly from advances in design and execution.

My Fuji took beautiful 6 MP portraits and pretty decent landscapes. But it was no good at the railroad photography that was my primary interest, because it was almost completely incapable of capturing diagonal lines. And the four AA NiCad cells that powered it were good for slightly over 100 exposures on a good day. The rear display was just over an inch, and there were a total of three displays that required attention. It was a plastic camera that required almost half a minute to power up after the firmware update that allowed 4 GB CF cards. And the 18-70mm variable aperture Nikkor zoom was poorly constructed and incapable of delivering edge to edge sharpness because it could not hold all lens elements parallel.

I think sometimes it's easy to forget where we have come from and even maybe to be a little bit arrogant about our perceived abilities to overcome mechanical shortcomings. And oh, by the way, I think that the Fuji's highest available sensitivity was ISO 400. Not sure what the fastest shutter speed was (the camera is currently on loan and not immediately available to me). It captured beautiful images within its capabilities, but there's no way I would try to rely on it today. Way too much it just can't do.
Hi Mac. I don't think I can agree that this is a s... (show quote)


I think it's readily apparent there have major advancements in digital cameras since the early days of digital. Just like the advancements in automobiles, aircraft, trains and many other things are apparent.

My main camera is a 16mp Nikon Df that was released in late 2013. There have been many technological advancements since the Df was released, and many of those advancements are nice to have and maybe want to have. But none of them are need to have. The Df was wonderful in 2013 and it is wonderful today.

I think a more beneficial and instructive exercise would be to use a prime lens, particularly a 50mm (or equivalent) prime lens for a month. Not a zoom lens set to a focal length, but a prime lens. Being restricted to one focal length for a period of time is an excellent learning opportunity. It requires thought, previsualization, and planning. There is more to composition than using the zoom function to have the subject fill the frame. An exercise like that would be more of a help to learning photography.

Reply
Oct 13, 2019 18:52:37   #
ronpier Loc: Poland Ohio
 
larryepage wrote:
In the two and a half years that I have been a member of this forum, there have been countless discussions around the importance of equipment, the relative importance of equipment, the non-importance of equipment, the serviceability of pinhole cameras, and other similar questions. There is currently an active discussion of this subject which is rapidly approaching 300 posts, has completely disrupted the dispositions of some of our normally calmest members, and has driven some of the rest of our number completely (or at least mostly) off the rails.

It is clear that a consensus on this topic is almost certainly unattainable, but the idea for an at least somewhat objective experiment to quantify (or at least qualify) a smidgeon of objectivity around this subject has come to mind.

The premise is really quite simple. It involves making the commitment to put away your latest, greatest, most favorite camera for three weeks. Instead, pull out your oldest operational camera (in my case a Fuji X3 Pro), and commit to using only that camera for the next three weeks. NO MATTER WHAT! At the end of the three weeks, you will be allowed to make an informed comment on the topic.

A couple of important notes here:

1. If you have sold or otherwise gotten rid of your older cameras, you have already voted.

2. If you refuse to try, or if you don't make it through all three weeks, your vote is automatically cast.

Of course, this works as well as a thought exercise as it does as an actual challenge. Have fun if you are willing. For the curious, I surrender right now.
In the two and a half years that I have been a mem... (show quote)


I put away my film cameras the day I went digital and have not shot one roll of film since then, thank a God!! I have owned 3 DSLRs since then and still use all three on a regular basis. Each one is uniquely different from each but also the same in many ways. Have DSLRs of 6,12 and 24 mp. Would not want to put any one away for 3 weeks even tho the newest is used the most. I enjoy revisiting the technology of years 2005, 2010 and 3017.

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Oct 13, 2019 19:08:57   #
Blair Shaw Jr Loc: Dunnellon,Florida
 
larryepage wrote:
In the two and a half years that I have been a member of this forum, there have been countless discussions around the importance of equipment, the relative importance of equipment, the non-importance of equipment, the serviceability of pinhole cameras, and other similar questions. There is currently an active discussion of this subject which is rapidly approaching 300 posts, has completely disrupted the dispositions of some of our normally calmest members, and has driven some of the rest of our number completely (or at least mostly) off the rails.

It is clear that a consensus on this topic is almost certainly unattainable, but the idea for an at least somewhat objective experiment to quantify (or at least qualify) a smidgeon of objectivity around this subject has come to mind.

The premise is really quite simple. It involves making the commitment to put away your latest, greatest, most favorite camera for three weeks. Instead, pull out your oldest operational camera (in my case a Fuji X3 Pro), and commit to using only that camera for the next three weeks. NO MATTER WHAT! At the end of the three weeks, you will be allowed to make an informed comment on the topic.

A couple of important notes here:

1. If you have sold or otherwise gotten rid of your older cameras, you have already voted.

2. If you refuse to try, or if you don't make it through all three weeks, your vote is automatically cast.

Of course, this works as well as a thought exercise as it does as an actual challenge. Have fun if you are willing. For the curious, I surrender right now.
In the two and a half years that I have been a mem... (show quote)


I shoot the cameras I own or I don't own them. I use both the newer FF & the older cropper models in tandem and sometimes I even video tape the event on a 3rd camera and even follow-up with 2 film cameras 70 years older than my current digital pair.(35mm)

The only camera I don't regularly use would be the Med Format studio because of the work involved with the setup and film work that follows & it's expenses. I reserve that one for rare events where I can stage everything ahead of schedule otherwise it sits in the closet with it's old-school light meters,etc.

I do enjoy the comparisons though that I can attain when viewing them later on the screen and enlarging them for details analysis.

Thanks for your idea anyway . Rediscovering ones' former haunts are often refreshing and a worthwhile - exercise for those who enjoy nostalgia.

Reply
Oct 13, 2019 19:32:21   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Larry, just a clarification. Oldest in terms of year of manufacture or number of years owned?
Thanks,
Bob

larryepage wrote:
In the two and a half Iyears that I have been a member of this forum, there have been countless discussions around the importance of equipment, the relative importance of equipment, the non-importance of equipment, the serviceability of pinhole cameras, and other similar questions. There is currently an active discussion of this subject which is rapidly approaching 300 posts, has completely disrupted the dispositions of some of our normally calmest members, and has driven some of the rest of our number completely (or at least mostly) off the rails.

It is clear that a consensus on this topic is almost certainly unattainable, but the idea for an at least somewhat objective experiment to quantify (or at least qualify) a smidgeon of objectivity around this subject has come to mind.

The premise is really quite simple. It involves making the commitment to put away your latest, greatest, most favorite camera for three weeks. Instead, pull out your oldest operational camera (in my case a Fuji X3 Pro), and commit to using only that camera for the next three weeks. NO MATTER WHAT! At the end of the three weeks, you will be allowed to make an informed comment on the topic.

A couple of important notes here:

1. If you have sold or otherwise gotten rid of your older cameras, you have already voted.

2. If you refuse to try, or if you don't make it through all three weeks, your vote is automatically cast.

Of course, this works as well as a thought exercise as it does as an actual challenge. Have fun if you are willing. For the curious, I surrender right now.
In the two and a half Iyears that I have been a me... (show quote)

Reply
Oct 13, 2019 19:48:10   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
rmalarz wrote:
Larry, just a clarification. Oldest in terms of year of manufacture or number of years owned?
Thanks,
Bob




Yes, Bob!

They are decidedly different in many cases.

Rediscovering the magic of film with vintage cameras is the most important part of my current journey. Thank you so much for your part in it.

Andy

Reply
Oct 13, 2019 19:51:32   #
AndyH Loc: Massachusetts and New Hampshire
 
User ID wrote:
My vote is already cast, preemptively, cuz
all my cameras are somewhat similar ....
all in the 12 to 24MP range, all in a 1 to 7
years age range, and none are state of the
art, mostly midrange. And MOST important
of all, I use them all interchangeably, as if
differences don't matter ... cuz differences
barely matter except in "special purposes".
IOW, shelving the newer ones for a while
is not much different from my normal use
patterns anywho.

And so, here's a snap with basic model of
a 24MP camera using a 50 year old normal
lens, and 2 more using an old Sony 16MP
Nex-6 with its kit lens ... IOW, whatever I
grabbed on my way out the door:
My vote is already cast, preemptively, cuz br all... (show quote)


I want to note that your history of occasionally snarky posts has been more than vindicated by your more recent contributions. I've not often seen such a transition from the cynical to the sincere in any person. I like your work, and sincerely appreciate your contributions. But that's just me.

Andy

Reply
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