CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City

He didn't have high-pass filters and pixel level editors. There was probably a bit more to it than darkroom magic ...

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)

BOOM!!!!!!!!

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

It's been my philosophy since before I read that quote years ago.
--Bob

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

But he was no slouch at composition and seeing great light.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

Yup, because the performance is the developing/post processing of the neg/raw.

lsupremo Loc: Palm Desert, CA

I was lucky enough to have been able to spend a week with Mr. Adams in 1969, and the one thing he told us that will always stick in my mind is “If you can’t make it bigger or more important, don’t push the button. Just remember it for what it was”

That is our job as photographers, CREATE something more important then just copying what is there.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

Every image is post processed, either in camera or on the computer.... In camera is like a poleroied, out of camera is like a negative being developed. Without precessing it is jusT data.

frankraney Loc: Clovis, Ca.

And then they was light......

JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco

Lots of photographers consider AA as the ultimate realist. I've never seen him that way. First of all, using B&W is automatically a kind of abstraction. Then Adams made frequent use of sky filters which made his skies darker and more dramatic than they appear to the eye. He felt he needed to make his images more dramatic in some way because a photograph can never give you the same feeling as seeing the scene with your eyes.

reverand

True. You might recall that Ansel began as a classical pianist, who then took up photography.

A Frame

Great discussion. From my humble amateur perspective this question: When does a shutter click cease to be a shutter click?

billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont

But it also helps to have Ansel's eye and experience.

E.L.. Shapiro Loc: Ottawa, Ontario Canada

My "argument" is that a photographer can strictly adhere to one processing concept, post-processing or SOTC, only if they confine their work to certain specialties that are compatible with either single method. As a professional photographer running a business, I can not do that and there are many others in the same situation. I am not attempting to t be the "Renaissance Man" of photography and doing absolutely everything that qualifies as photography but my business demands diversification for long term survival and longevity. My overhead expenses are constant and can not accommodate seasonal slumps and erratic cash flow so I do a mixture of commercial work, portraiture and event photography. Of course, clients demand results so that adds pressure to the mix. I'll explain.

Folks here are mentioning slides or transparency films. For many decades I shot "chromes" in many formats- slides and large format transparencies. Granted, they had to be perfect or nearly so straight out of the camera as to exposure, tonal range, and composition. During the week, I was shooting food, products, architecture and some fashion. I had plenty of time for testing- we made Polaroid shots to verify all of the aforementioned, we bracketed exposures, in some cases we could spend all day on one shot. If there was a deficit in highlight or shadow detail, masks could be made and there were certain corrections that could be made in pre-press and color separation work in the lithographic process but most of the time the budgets demanded straightforward perfect transparencies.

Came the weekend, however, there were weddings and all I can say is thank goodness for color negative film, back in the day, and today's post-processing. Of course, I want consistent exposures and composition for efficient workflow and printing but I am running around, sometimes at a breakneck pace, under every kind of lighting condition and circumstances and there are many occasions when images need to be perfected or even rescued in post-processing. Again, the clients want results and the could not care less of how they are achieved in the camera, the darkroom, or the computer. Incidentally, I do press work for 4 years and believe me, the darkroom was my salvation in may instance- it had to bracket exposures during a riot!

In general portraiture, in the olden times, black and white and color negative films were always the mainstays. Portraits for clients were rarely made on transparency material. Negatives enabled retouching and many enhancements during the printing process. It is important to note that busy portrait and wedding operation did and still do demand consistent quality, right out of the camera in that erratic exposure and composition increase production time cost and reduced quality. Nowadays, the RAW digital file is the "negative" and all the aforementioned needs for post-processing are still valid. Years ago, many studios had their color labs print their portraits and wedding proofs and final prints made on automatic printing machines. This was done to reduce costs and remain competitive in the marketplace. Theses prints were called "economy" or machine prints. The color and density could be extremely well controlled by good operators but there was no burning or dodging and very limited cropping available. I still try to shoot for the "machine" so my post-processing is minimal.

As for slides, back in the day, many dozens of films in the manufacture, each with its own color palette, saturation speed, granularity, light balance and contrast. We could also alter some of these characteristics in processing by pushing or pulling methods, however, sometimes there were losses in all over quality. Each photographer had their favorites and could choose among many manufacturers and types. Isn't it great that we can now alter many of theses specification in the camera, from shot to shot, and THEN further control many of these characteristics in post-processing? This does not reflect poorly on a photographer's skills but only extends their capabilities.

I am not writing this to say that professional photographers are necessarily superior to amateurs but all othere circumstances being equal, there working under different circumstances, demands, time constraints, and pressures. There is nothing wrong with a photographer that only has him or herself to satisfy- its a great luxury that I too enjoy when I am only shooting for my own edification, satisfaction or just having fun. Professional methodologies, philosophies, demands and standard operating procedures do not necessarily have to be adopted or even considered by amateurs. If these concepts help you in understanding your craft, achieving what you want in photograhy, and/or provide tips or shortcuts, simply take them for what they are worth.

By the way, darkroom manipulation, image enhancement, and post-processing did not start with Adams and the Zone System. Over the years, many of my clients brought in very old portraits for restoration. In some cases, the original image was extremely soft and all the detail was added, manually, with pencils, paints, and dyes. Some of them were sepia-toned prints that were hand-colored or tinted with transparent oil paints. In some cases, fading had taken place and all that remained was the added retouching. Many of theses portrait was still in their original oval frames with "bubble" glass and dated back to the late 1800s and the beginning of the 19thy century.

Bill P

Best advice ever.