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Ansel Adams on processing
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Oct 13, 2019 08:43:14   #
tcthome Loc: NJ
 
PixelStan77 wrote:
Agree 150 Percent.


yup!

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Oct 13, 2019 08:44:10   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
jsmangis wrote:
Before Ansel Adams, what we now call ‘post processing’ did not exist. I remember watching his program on PBS. In one episode, he came out of the darkroom with a print and put it into the microwave oven for 15 seconds. When he took it out, he said to the audience, “What can I say, it brings out the blacks.”


Photographers had been manipulating photographs in the darkroom well before Ansel Adams came along. And the microwave thing is because darkroom prints often "dried down", that is, they would get a little darker when they dried than when they were viewed when wet. The microwave just dried them quickly so you could judge that.

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Oct 13, 2019 08:48:54   #
bbrowner Loc: Chapel Hill, NC
 
Not quite true... speaking as a professional symphonic trumpet player (retired). With professional musicians... you will always get a good performance. The resulting music may be second class if the score is second class... but the performance can... and always will be good. (I've played many second class scores with a good performance!)

Just splitting hairs with the comment. But I understand your thinking.

Barry

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Oct 13, 2019 09:05:50   #
Fotomacher Loc: Toronto
 
Gene51 wrote:
I think there are a few people on this forum who take such great pride in NOT processing the image after it's been taken who's heads will explode when they read this . . . Their loss.


What “those people” don’t realize, or want to realize is that the images they are so proud of NOT PROCESSING have been processed by the on-board software installed in the camera bodies by the manufacturers. Their images are JPGs which have been rendered from the raw data captured by the sensor. The processing is based on algorithms that the engineers decided on to produce images that “most users” would like. It’s the equivalent of a Polaroid compared to film that has to be developed. NOW watch those heads explode!

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Oct 13, 2019 09:10:24   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Fotomacher wrote:
What “those people” don’t realize, or want to realize is that the images they are so proud of NOT PROCESSING have been processed by the on-board software installed in the camera bodies by the manufacturers. Their images are JPGs which have been rendered from the raw data captured by the sensor. The processing is based on algorithms that the engineers decided on to produce images that “most users” would like. It’s the equivalent of a Polaroid compared to film that has to be developed. NOW watch those heads explode!
What “those people” don’t realize, or want to real... (show quote)


Can we accept that any human is a modicum of experience with any of the many software processing options can process an JPEG well beyond what the camera did? For most work, 'beyond' is also a visual improvement, even if just purely technical like leveling a horizon or changing the crop or increasing contrast. This ongoing nitpick about 'the camera processed the image' is true, but has no relevance to almost every discussion where the wise truth-teller injects the information into the discussion.

We know the SOOC crowd will tend to hold Ansel as some sort of god (film in general), unaware they know nothing about his methods and darkroom magic. But, they have a point about more time shooting and less time processing with high quality, ready to go JPEGs. They also tend to use the loaded 'photoshopped' pejorative as if every image has a sky replaced, sunburst added, at least 1 person removed, and grandma's gray hair changed back to raven black.

The reality is that most every digital image should be processed, at least a bit, in post. If your images defy this observation, good for you. They probably exhibit a few traits most of us would be happy to teach you how to process away. If you shoot in RAW, you have to do everything the camera would have done in addition to your own artistic, or just technical, improvements. In a strict sense, both these JPEG and RAW images have been 'photoshopped', but no skies were replaced, people removed, and so forth. But, most of our SOOC wouldn't understand that ...

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Oct 13, 2019 09:27:55   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
mizzee wrote:
Just heard a wonderful quote from Ansel Adams, “The negative is the score, the photograph is the performance.” That to me is the essence of post processing. What do you think?


It is not new to me, per Ansel Adams or even the UHH, but I agree with it 100%!

Or “The negative is the score, the print is the performance.” Ansel was a amateur musician as well as a photographer.

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Oct 13, 2019 09:44:10   #
MrBob Loc: lookout Mtn. NE Alabama
 
jerryc41 wrote:
And the camera?


Some Great musicians are old, some are young.... same with cameras !

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Oct 13, 2019 10:26:11   #
Zario Loc: sacramento, CA
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
I guess it's semantics and philosophy ime on the old forum again!

Back in the good old film era if you used black and white or color NEGATIVE film or any film, without "processing" the was nothing to look at unless you enjoyed viewing an unprocessed blank film or your negatives on a lightbox. So.. with negative films, to realize the image, PRINTING was/is the next required step.

Technically, you did not necessarily have to MANIPULATE the image- you could produce a straight contact print of and unmanipulated enlargement without burning, dodging or cropping if that was your preference. Most master photographers of the era were also master printers and tended to maximize the detail, range, composition and image tone in the printing stage. This would include Mr. Adams and most of his contemporaries.

The Zone System, of which Ansel Adams was one of the pioneers, inventors, and innovators and most famous practitioners was/is a balanced combination of deliberate camera work, precise customized film processing, and custom printing.

Henri Cartier-Bresson was said to have never cropped an image in the enlarging stage and insisted on determining the exact composition in the camera. He did, however, dodge and burn and allow his darkroom staff to do so. I know because I knew the guy you print his exhibition prints in New York City.

At one time there was a style whereby photographers would make their prints including the sprocket holes on 35mm negatives or the film identification indicators or code notches on roll and cut film to somehow prove the images were uncropped and were indeed real PHOTOGRAPHS. I never saw the aesthetic value in that but yes, to each his own.

Nowadays we have photographers of every ilk who are intensely pro or con just about everything in the photographic world, however, everything is relative. Some might think that Adams was the ultimate master of photographic manipulation, yet his NEMESIS was William Mortensen who manipulated the HELL out of negatives with overlays, texture screens, solarizations, paper negatives and more. Photojournalists. ostensibly, are no supposed to manipulate their images- ever hear of W. Eugene Smith? He spent endless hours in the darkroom, dodging, burning, bleaching, flashing and cropping but only to bring out every detail in his images to help tell the story. Weegee, (Arthur Fellig) processed images in a changing bag in the trunk of his car. Both told the story exceedingly well!

So...post processing can mean simply bringing out ALL the information on a negative or digital file or enhancing it, or completely changing it up or creating special effects- perhaps a combination of some or all of these in a singular image? This is up to the photographer- each individual photographer. If you consider photography and art, please remember that every artist, painter, sculptor, etcher, or whatever, works in a different way as to the use of color or the lack thereof, the medium, style, and approach. It would be awfully dull if everyone worked in the same way and produced the same things, the same way and in the same manner all the time.
I guess it's semantics and philosophy ime on the ... (show quote)


I'm with you here...and I really like Bresson and Smith. Thanks for your thoughtful and balanced comments. Zario

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Oct 13, 2019 10:28:37   #
petercbrandt Loc: New York City, Manhattan
 
mizzee wrote:
Just heard a wonderful quote from Ansel Adams, “The negative is the score, the photograph is the performance.” That to me is the essence of post processing. What do you think?


Terrific ! Agreed !
Polaroids to verify my composition and lighting, have been the only images I've not manipulated.

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Oct 13, 2019 10:58:19   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
mizzee wrote:
Just heard a wonderful quote from Ansel Adams, “The negative is the score, the photograph is the performance.” That to me is the essence of post processing. What do you think?


I think there is some truth to this but it isn't alway necessary to post process an image. Some people are purests and I wouldn't want to step on their toes just because I shoot raw and process ALL of my photos....

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Oct 13, 2019 10:58:21   #
Toment Loc: FL, IL
 
SOOC is a series 0’s and 1’s. Agreed?
Then even the RAW image, when you see it on the monitor, has been processed into a visible photo.
I mean, even before the film was processed there was no image on the film.

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Oct 13, 2019 10:59:57   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Toment wrote:
SOOC is a series 0’s and 1’s. Agreed?
Then even the RAW image, when you see it on the monitor, has been processed into a visible photo.
I mean, even before the film was processed there was no image on the film.


In the beginning, there was darkness ...

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Oct 13, 2019 11:11:52   #
olemikey Loc: 6 mile creek, Spacecoast Florida
 
mizzee wrote:
Just heard a wonderful quote from Ansel Adams, “The negative is the score, the photograph is the performance.” That to me is the essence of post processing. What do you think?


Sounds good to me!

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Oct 13, 2019 11:24:13   #
cahale Loc: San Angelo, TX
 
Hang it on the wall and wait. What went before is immaterial (to the viewer).

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Oct 13, 2019 11:27:27   #
kiterwv Loc: Hagerstown, MD
 
I think that Ansel Adams' genius was in the darkroom.

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