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Amateur Portrait Session
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Aug 22, 2019 21:15:01   #
photoshack Loc: Irvine, CA
 
Late to the party but tell your client you will do it free but a donation would be nice if they like your work and sign a release so you can use what you have done..compensation via release.

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Aug 22, 2019 23:35:28   #
aubreybogle Loc: Albuquerque, NM
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Please don't take this as a nasty response, just an analysis of this question and your situation.

You stated that you have no prior experience with portraiture except for a class project or exercise. You don't know where the location is- how are you gonna address the lighting? Do you know what she expects? If you don't do the work, she will do a selfie? She's not interested in her high school yearbook! Bad omen! Sounds to me that you are walking into a MESS! That is unless you set the ground rules in a nice way.
Disinterested kids make for difficult portrait subjects. When they are into it and really want something special, you will have an easier job. If she enjoys the session, that helps too! Tell her the session-is gonna be fun and she will look and feel like a fashion model! It's not like going to the dentist!

Here's the part you're not gonna like: You don't really know what you are doing (yet) and what you are in for and you want to charge money for this service?

She does not want you to print the images. Chances are she will take whatever media you supply and have the badly printed and blame you for the poor results OR she will never have the printed and she and her folks will have no memories of her senior year.

Here's an idea. Charge her a minimal fee for your time or suspend or wave the sitting fee and charge her a fair price for the prints he selects. Anywhere from 3 to 5 times cost may cover your time and yield a modest profit. If you really want to do this for the experience and to help your friend, this might be your best bet. This is called working on speculation- if the work is good and the client is pleased you stand to score a nice order. It's better to work this way than to charge a ridiculously low price and garner a reputation for lowball prices and someon who gives away the files with no real compensation.

If you want to start a portrait portfolio and perhaps start a small business- start off on the right foot. Random pricing based on unknown overhead factors, profit margins and an unbusinesslike public perception of your work and pricing is bad business.

What you should be concerned with now is lighting, posing, the possibility of needed retouching, etc.

PLEASE give theses folks you "professional" advice. Digital media, unprinted, ends up in cyberspace and not in the hands of parents, grand forks and loved ones. If she does not have a nice set of senior portraits and no year book she will regret it.

56 Years in the portrait biz and still working!

If you want to get more information on senior portraits, fined me in the "Advance and Professional Portraiture" section right here on UHH!I'll tell you how to get the kids involved and enthused!

Pep Talk- You are a creative person- you can not be replaced by a kid with a cellphone. Go in there and set them straight and gain their confidence and cooperation!

I hope this helps!
Please don't take this as a nasty response, just a... (show quote)


Definitely not nasty. Excellent and informative comment. I learned something also. Aubrey

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Aug 23, 2019 06:58:36   #
Scruples Loc: Brooklyn, New York
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciated. Anytime you are in Ottawa, you are welcome to visit me. One day soon, before I leave this world, I'll have to take a trip through my old "hood" in Bedford-Stuyvesant and Williamsburg in Brooklyn.

I try NOT to get up on a "high horse" or becoming snobbish about portrait photography, however, after a lifetime in the photography business- mostly nowadays in the commercial end of the industry, FINE PORTRAITURE is still my first love. It was my entry-level into the business as an apprentice and I was fortunate enough to have had GREAT mentors and a through formal education it that specialty.

So here's my gripe: There are many photographers on this site that really know what the are doing technically as to cameras, lenses, digital technology, and also many who are great wildlife, bird and nature shooters and top landscape photographers. The study, argue endlessly about pixel counts, format differentials, optics, and all the science, math and even the artistic elements of their fields. Many do a fine job! When it comes to portraiture- truly good stuff, however, as we used to say in Brooklyn, except for a few like CaptainC (Cliff), there is "BUGGER ALL" and that's a polite way of putting it. Perhaps there is little interest in this field around here. I think many folks have a serious misconception of what it is all about.

I think the best bird photographers are enthralled with the beauty of their favorite subjects. Perhaps many are into ornithology- the know the migratory and nesting habits, they know the best ways to render their color and plumage, they know exactly how and where the fly. Ansel Adams was probably the worlds foremost landscape photographer because he had a deep love and respect for the environment and the natural beauty of the landscape. To be a great portrait photographer you gotta love people! If you think they are a vain bunch of fusspots and pains in the rear end- find another specialty. If you think that folks are too fussy, that brides are "bridezillas" and the active kids are little "rug-rats" you will not be successful in portraiture no matter how to good a technician you are or how great your gear is. Believe it on not- your attitude and approach show up in your pictures!

Technically and artistically speaking, you CAN NOT learn FINE portraiture overnight, by looking at magazines, online tutorials, or taking in a one-time class. Many, otherwise good photographers have absolutely no knowledge of the very BASICS, let alone sophisticated methodologies. Most will attempt to "run before the can walk" and plunge into all kinds of psychological and aesthetic approaches without a good foundation in the basics. Many reject "rules" or procedures in art but all I can say is that some of the best improvisational jazz musicians started off with classical backgrounds and training!

The dynamics of lighting in portraiture can fill a small encyclopedia, however, there is little or no literature that is easily accessible. If I had the incentive, time and addition energy to write a book on the subject, there would be 4 chapters on the angle of incidence theory. I'll bet at most casual portrait shooter don't actually know how to use an umbrella modifier.

Posing can not learn from a "posing guide" by copycatting pictures. it knowing about human body mechanics, weight distribution, line, and facial and body types and aesthetics. Some of the word's gratis photographic portraits were carefully posed and directed but they seem entirely natural. Many of the portraits I see around are badly "distorted", not in an optical way because of the wrong distance of focal length usage, but because they are no a true likeness of the subject, there are awkward places of limbs, facial features misrepresented and unnatural.

There is a serious misconception that classical portraits are stiff, cookie-cutter, overly retouched and boring. Wel- birts, nature, flowers, antique cars, wildlife can be all beautiful. Spots activities are exciting- all great grist for the photographer's mill! To my mind, however, there is nothing more beautiful, interesting, exciting, alluring and something downright glamorous and sexy than our fellow human beings. When they come to sit or stand before our cameras we have a kind of obligation to create something of beauty, texture, personability, memorability, and character to give them. It's not a job or even a hobby for the impatient, sloppy, lazy or reclusive photographer.

When you really get to know your onions and get all of the basics down pat you can certainly develop your own style. You will do many of the technical function as almost second nature so you can concentrate on the aesthetics, relating to your subjects and capturing characteristic expressions. moods and themes.

The business? Well- all I can say is we are all consumers of goods and services. Nowadays, when you are in the market for any kind of personalized service, custom made a product, or the work of a skilled crafts-persons trades-person, professional or artisan, what are you gonna get for a $25. gift card some pocket change. There is absolutely nothing wrong with amateurs doing work for friends and low or no cost or ever professions donating there work to good causes or good folks in need, or doing some pro bono stuff.
If you want to start a business, however, do this in a profitable and business-like manner. If you need some incentive just have a peek at your last plumbing, electricians, auto mechanics, dental, or accountants bill. Been to an art-gallery lately? - SCARRY! $
Thank you for your kind words, they are appreciate... (show quote)


SIR! I must bow my head. I am humbled by your awesome knowledge. I do not consider myself a professional in no way like yourself. I hope and pray to be as good as you when I am finished "playing" photographer. Thank you for making me a humble student again.

Happy Shooting!!

Reply
 
 
Aug 23, 2019 06:59:37   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
Please don't take this as a nasty response, just an analysis of this question and your situation.

You stated that you have no prior experience with portraiture except for a class project or exercise. You don't know where the location is- how are you gonna address the lighting? Do you know what she expects? If you don't do the work, she will do a selfie? She's not interested in her high school yearbook! Bad omen! Sounds to me that you are walking into a MESS! That is unless you set the ground rules in a nice way.
Disinterested kids make for difficult portrait subjects. When they are into it and really want something special, you will have an easier job. If she enjoys the session, that helps too! Tell her the session-is gonna be fun and she will look and feel like a fashion model! It's not like going to the dentist!

Here's the part you're not gonna like: You don't really know what you are doing (yet) and what you are in for and you want to charge money for this service?

She does not want you to print the images. Chances are she will take whatever media you supply and have the badly printed and blame you for the poor results OR she will never have the printed and she and her folks will have no memories of her senior year.

Here's an idea. Charge her a minimal fee for your time or suspend or wave the sitting fee and charge her a fair price for the prints he selects. Anywhere from 3 to 5 times cost may cover your time and yield a modest profit. If you really want to do this for the experience and to help your friend, this might be your best bet. This is called working on speculation- if the work is good and the client is pleased you stand to score a nice order. It's better to work this way than to charge a ridiculously low price and garner a reputation for lowball prices and someon who gives away the files with no real compensation.

If you want to start a portrait portfolio and perhaps start a small business- start off on the right foot. Random pricing based on unknown overhead factors, profit margins and an unbusinesslike public perception of your work and pricing is bad business.

What you should be concerned with now is lighting, posing, the possibility of needed retouching, etc.

PLEASE give theses folks you "professional" advice. Digital media, unprinted, ends up in cyberspace and not in the hands of parents, grand forks and loved ones. If she does not have a nice set of senior portraits and no year book she will regret it.

56 Years in the portrait biz and still working!

If you want to get more information on senior portraits, fined me in the "Advance and Professional Portraiture" section right here on UHH!I'll tell you how to get the kids involved and enthused!

Pep Talk- You are a creative person- you can not be replaced by a kid with a cellphone. Go in there and set them straight and gain their confidence and cooperation!

I hope this helps!
Please don't take this as a nasty response, just a... (show quote)


Best answer I've read the short time I've been here. Great advice. I'm going to do some family pictures for a friend. I'll be looking you up soon. I'm not in it for the extra money but it would be nice to provide them a quality product and break even. Excellent answer. Bravo!!!

Reply
Aug 27, 2019 06:18:24   #
PhotoNat Loc: Santa Maria, CA
 
Hi. I wanted to get back to everyone and say thank you SO MUCH for ALL your input regarding my question about doing the Senior Portraits. I have done screenprints on all answers and will go back again and look at all the great advice I got. Sorry I did not get this thank you reply posted earlier. I was in a car accident last Thursday, after I had written the advice request,( I and the lady in the other car are both okay) and killed my cell phone on Saturday,(it fell onto a friend's cement driveway). I have been dealing with car insurance estimates and cell phone replacement, so was a bit preoccupied.

I had also talked to a friend of mine who is a professional level photographer and has done some portrait photography himself. He suggested, and I agreed upon taking the photos, then if they like them, they can pay me a little( or may do some kind of gift card if they would like). My friend also volunteered(for no extra charge to go along and take photos alongside of me, then if for some reason mine didn't turn out, his most likely would. Then I would just take him for a nice dinner.

Anyway, again, thanks much,
PhotoNat

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Aug 27, 2019 06:20:27   #
PhotoNat Loc: Santa Maria, CA
 
PhotoShack,
How funny, I just saw your post with suggestion after I had posted my reply. Thanks, I'll take that as a confirmation of my reply.
PhotoNat

Reply
Aug 28, 2019 23:10:30   #
topcat Loc: Alameda, CA
 
Me thinks that you should think about how the pictures would come out. If they will be on par with a professional, you can get something. If they are going to be totally amateur, then you should chalk it up to a learning experience. Don't forget fill flash, and maybe a reflector. Certainly, check-up on what quality is needed.
Better to do it for free and make a friend.

Reply
 
 
Aug 29, 2019 02:17:17   #
PhotoNat Loc: Santa Maria, CA
 
PhotoShack,
I think you're right. Thanks for the advice. Reflectors I had thought about. I will probably be shooting outside during golden hour,(preferably) do you think I should invest in a separate flash, or just use my camera flash and reflectors? She(the mom) had said if I don't do them, she or a friend will just take them with her cell phone, so sounds pretty casual quality-wise to me. Plus I do have a friend who told me he would volunteer to go and take photos alongside of me who is a professional level photographer, and has done some free lance portrait work. He has a very good eye for it.
Thanks again,
PhotoNat

Reply
Aug 29, 2019 07:24:12   #
photoshack Loc: Irvine, CA
 
Well it takes some know how to get proper fill with an on camera flash and taking that off camera with remote trigger adds to that. I would master the on camera fill first then graduate to off camera....

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Aug 30, 2019 20:47:32   #
PhotoNat Loc: Santa Maria, CA
 
Thanks PhotoShack, makes prefect sense. Good suggestion, and I will get in my practice with on-camera flash, and reflector discs and a utility stand to hold the discs, which I am going to buy a set of. I did talk the woman who wants me to take the photos and,(since she wants to do a couple of outdoor locations) suggested later in the day(golden hour) which would be softer lighting, and asked if she could let me know where they would like to go, so I could check it out beforehand for lighting, posing, and any other ideas that might come to mind.
Thanks again,
Natalie
Thanks again,
PhotoNat

Reply
Aug 30, 2019 21:14:20   #
photoshack Loc: Irvine, CA
 
the upside of course is if you don't use your flash (use reflectors for fill, or the side of a building or wall as fill..I have even used the driveway looking out of the garage as fill) you can shoot at any speed you like, and open your lens wide or telephoto for that nice separation. Doing that with strobe is sometimes more difficult depending on your available light due to the sync speed of your flash unless you have fancy HSS turned on..

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