Grahame Loc: Fiji

This may be possible with some scenes but how does your camera deal with scenes that have a greater DR than it?

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

I want the blue gray delivered by AWB, because that is what is there if you actually look at it!

So nice of you to make my point for me - that Pentax's auto WB is giving the colors that are actually there, not the colors we would see under 'perfect' lighting!!!

Early in my time here, I posted a photo of my daughter playing soccer in 2002 (*). I didn't remember what my point was then, but UHH members were true to form, complaining "grass is too blue" and "skin is too pink". I happened to still have the slide at hand, and those colors were correct. Of course, the scene was blue - this was a typical overcast cool April morning, and everyone who lives here knows that those are blue days; of course their skin was pink - that is what happens to young skin that has played over half a game of energetic soccer.

That same year my wife and I went to the Madrigal Dinner performed by the college where she worked. I had a Canon Elph at the time, but partway through the dinner, she leaned over and whispered "those aren't right!". Further whispered conversation revealed that the set designers had put a lot of effort in turning a student lounge into a candle-lit medieval dining hall, and the Elph's WB had worked very hard to render the scene as if it were lit by perfectly white light. A got a small Pentax Q-7 a month later, and she has been totally satisfied by the photos ever since.

Faithful rendering consists of the colors that are actually there, not the colors we would get under perfect light. Yes, the brain might "correct" these colors itself, but it also makes little notes to itself "cloudy weather", "near sunset", "candle light", etc. I want the same rendering I got from slide film, and that is exactly what I am getting.

(*) Short back story: during the regular season the "blue" team defeated her team 10-0 an evening when Margo {my daughter} was sick and stayed home; a girl named Molly had scored all 10 goals. For the tournament, their coach said "we can't have that happen again', so even though Molly was close to a foot taller than Margo, he had Margo 'mark' Molly. Molly's team still won - Molly scored 2 goals and Margo's team still didn't score - but the two engaged in an epic Battle Royale for the entire match.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

I deal with it the same way I dealt with it when using slide film; I expose correctly for the important part of the scene, and let the chips lie where they will.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

Complete rubbish. Below is from one of my student's cameras. The photos were taken sequentially with less than 1.5 minutes between them. Which auto WB fail is the faithful one? Hint: They're both wrong.

In a side by side comparison with a properly WB image everyone will identify purple smoke as wrong: https://static.uglyhedgehog.com/upload/2017/7/12/769101-8_water_stop.jpg

Joe

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

No, you don't. At any time of day you can't know the color of the sky or anything else because color perception is subjective.

In mixed lighting conditions, whatever you do to the color balance, it's going to make part of the scene look right and another part wrong. The only way to beat that is to use layers and apply a different color balance to each layer, but then the entire scene is going to look unnatural.

The easiest way to work is to shoot all outdoor scenes at a constant WB, for example Daylight. Then stuff in direct sunlight (about 5200K) looks like it's in direct sunlight, stuff in the shade (about 8000K) looks bluer and on an overcast day (about 6000K) it's in between. Or you could pick any of those WB settings as a starting point and tweak it from there until you get what you want.

Even if you use a gray card you can never get it right under mixed lighting conditions. Gray cards work better under controlled lighting conditions with a single color light source.

This is not rocket science. It's common sense.

Ysarex Loc: St. Louis

And I produce a more faithful document of what was actually there by not letting the chips fall.

Joe

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

You are right about the pitfall of AutoWB. It's as vulnerable as auto exposure in any form, even with matrix metering.

But the smoke is not purple. It has a magenta cast because there s too much green in the rest of the image.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

Your definition of "faithful" is what you could do with color negative film.

My definition of "faithful" is what I did with Kodachrome.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Our Kodachrome was Daylight balanced.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

In the 1980s, I had a big bag of filters to use with Daylight slide films. 80A, 80B, 80C, 81A, 82A, 85, 85B, 85C, FL-B, FL-D, 5 strengths of each Wratten CC filter in C, M, Y, R, G, B colors, plus a gel filter holder.

Briefly, I had a color temperature meter.

I had filters for my flash to match CW fluorescent tubes and incandescent lamps.

All that stuff and much guesswork was eliminated by digital camera white balance tools.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

Grahame Loc: Fiji

That's as most of us would do and you realise the camera's automation is not always going to get it "right" as previously suggested.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

If that ever happens, I'll let you know.

My desire is to have a consistent response, just as I got with slide film,

coolhoosier Loc: Dover, NH, USA

Try a snow scene sometime.

Grahame Loc: Fiji

So this previous comment of yours .............................



...................... was actually to do with achieving a "consistent response" rather than the camera "getting it right" to show what you saw.