Nickaroo

jcboy, you really know how to make a guy realize his age.

drmike99 Loc: Fairfield Connecticut

Thank you Bill. 17 pages of hair-splitting on a semantic difference without much distinction and finally a clear statement of what constitutes editing vs. processing.

rehess Loc: South Bend, Indiana, USA

Did you go to college at U of Mich?
If so, when did you graduate?

I will admit to graduating from Purdue Univ in 1969.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

To reap the benefits of in-camera raw file re-processing, you have to send the file out as a JPEG, via USB or WiFi.

OR, you can use the CAMERA MANUFACTURER's software for post production image conversion. That software applies the camera menu settings stored in the EXIF table, when you first open the raw file on your computer. Third party software *generally does not do this*... It applies its OWN default values for image parameters.

pbl

I am not good with computers and don't like sitting in front of one for long so I prefer to be outside taking the photo and not inside sitting at the computer. In my opinion there are two art forms 1. an untouched or virtually untouched photo and 2. a photo worked on and changed on the computer. There is a place for both but I don't like the attitude that I have come up against ie that photos can all be improved on and therefore should all be edited.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

Yes, I would say editing comes after the capture. Making a change to the captured image.

If you save the RAW as a JPEG without changing anything in the RAW editor, you have not edited, just changed the image format. Just like if the camera created a JPEG for you.

Nickaroo

I did graduate from U of M. Many years ago. 1981 to be exact.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

Of course not. You are missing the point.

I don't feel that the terms "editing" and "processing" are synonymous.

I make the distinction that you can't actually edit something until you are looking at it. That necessarily happens after the image is processed to create a JPEG in the camera or to a raster image on your computer.

That means that a JPEG SOOC has not yet been edited, just processed from raw. What makes it faithful to the original scene is not that it is visually superior. It's just that no human intervention has taken place to add anything to the image or remove anything from it. It still represents the truth, warts and all.

As burkphoto just stated, "To me, editing means cropping, retouching, masking, layering, blurring/sharpening, adding text and graphics... in other words, altering the visual information significantly beyond reality." I would not include a particular type of retouching - removing spots caused by dust on the sensor. They were not part of the scene.

I do not feel that changing the processing steps in your camera or on your computer that affect the color balance, tonality, brightness, contrast, etc., to be editing.

Other things that might fall somewhere in between such as a B&W conversion, fixing vignetting, lens aberrations, etc.

You may not agree and that's OK. We don't need to reach a consensus.

selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA

When you do in-camera editing it actually generates a new JPEG with a new image number. You can import it along with all of your other JPEG SOOC images.

You just don't get another copy of the original raw file.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

You can process the image after the camera processes the image. Or you can edit it.
Why would "processing" an image be restricted to the camera doing it?
People can "process" an image also.

Abo

Hey Dirty,

I hope you are not underestimating your ability; your
"Hummingbird Moths" for example... were great images of subjects that
have to be a 9 on the degree of difficulty scale to capture in flight,
and in great detail.


Sorry Doc, I don't mean to derail your thread;
I was just working my way through the it (page 1 of 17 crikey!) when
I read DFs post and felt I had to respond....

Anyway, good topic you have raised Sir.

My feeling on this matter is "if it feels good do it".
It was a philosophy that governed all my actions in the 80s; got me into a lot of trouble.

Anyhow, I reckon focusing on SOOC is an excellent discipline. OTOH, creations that really on heavily on
photo editing can be high art, or wonderful satire and everything in between. Modern
photography would be poorer without it IMHO.

In a nut shell; there's a time and place for both.

You aught to have a look
at the work of Koen Demuynck,
it represents images from both
the artistic and "creative" ends of
the use of computer editing.

burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC

Of course, the *raw portion* of a raw data file never changes. But a raw file is a sort of wrapper... in addition to the raw data from the sensor are other components, including one or more preview JPEGs and an EXIF table.

On my camera, when I re-process a JPEG in camera from raw, the JPEG preview in the raw file is edited, along with its EXIF table, and a new full JPEG is saved. The raw wrapper stores whatever the latest version is. Of course, I can always open the raw file in post, and get any result from it I can muster.

Lots of people don't get the distinction that third party developers most often have NO access to the camera manufacturer's "secret sauces". They wonder why their SOOC JPEGs "look better than" merely developed raw images. That has everything to do with the way the third party software works (or doesn't).

WillieO

Internationally recognized iconic photographer..."Master" of post-processing..."Creator" of the universally accepted and utilized "Zone System"...

Famous quotes of Ansel Adams...

"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs."

"I am sure the next step will be the electronic image, and I hope I will live to see it. I trust that the creative eye will continue to function, whatever technological innovations may develop."

"Photography is more than a medium for factual communication of ideas. It is a creative art!"

And my FAVORITE..."You don't 'take' a photograph...you 'make' it!"


...why is my freedom being judged by another's conscience? 1Cor. 10:29

Embrace your freedom and enjoy the "unlimited" joy of photography!!

srt101fan

Process vs Edit: Semantics

skingfong Loc: Sacramento

When I first started, I use to think I'd rather be shooting than editing too. But as I became more proficient at editing and more aware of things I saw in the image, I realized I can make a better jpg than the camera can by editing the raw file. I shoot Raw + jpg. A lot of times I see a jpg could've been done better by me than the camera. I don't edit every single shot, but my favorites and jpgs that could use some help. Shooting and editing go hand in hand. There's nothing wrong with having a little icing on the cake you just baked. That's the way I see it.