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Aug 2, 2019 14:53:00   #
mikeglaw
 
Cmbtvet wrote:
I would like some suggestions on Editing software. I shoot with a Nikon D3300 and D7200, I would like something that's downloadable to my computer that's 1 and done. I know PS and LR you can buy but also have to subscribe and pay either a monthly or annual fee. I want Something that works well with RAW (NEF) and JPEG, but don't want to pay the monthly or annual fees. I don't do a lot of editing but would like to get into it to enhance my photos like the horse show I did so I could block out some of the busy backgrounds and what not. any suggestions?
I would like some suggestions on Editing software.... (show quote)


I just bought Paint Shop Pro Ultimate for a special of $39.99. In looking through the tutorials, I believe that my D3400 photo's will easily be enhances, with back ground removal, editing, adding Bokah, and there are no monthly annual fees. Look for a "special" price, or search on the web for a $ cheap) version. I would recommend at least 2018 version, I just bought the 2019 Ultimate version, and the 2020 version is not out for around $80.

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Aug 2, 2019 16:14:15   #
jpgto Loc: North East Tennessee
 
Why not use the Nikon product that came with your camera(s)? Very good product, However, I do use Zoner Studios in addition.

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Aug 2, 2019 18:50:02   #
rfmaude41 Loc: Lancaster, Texas (DFW area)
 
Also, there's GIMP and DARKTABLE, both free.

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Aug 2, 2019 19:02:03   #
Bill Munny Loc: Aurora, Colorado
 
via the lens wrote:
Affinity Photo is much like Photoshop but I think it's still a one-time buy, not including updates of course.You might consider Luminar or ON1. I'm not sure if Luminar does background replacement but it seems like someone I've talked to recently said it did. ON1 will allow background replacements. You'll have a learning curve no matter what you choose.


Affinity does not charge for upgrades. So far (1.5 yrs and two upgrades) I have not been charged. Wish people would stop guessing and then giving out false data about things on this site.

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Aug 2, 2019 19:20:58   #
mwsilvers Loc: Central New Jersey
 
srt101fan wrote:
Glad you chimed in Joe! I've read previous comments from you that Affinity saves only the end result of the RAW development process but not the intermediate steps you take to get there. I understand that, but that's not an issue for me (at least not yet).

My bigger issue is one you alluded to here: "The demosaicing job the develop module does is respectable and if your goal matches their design focus and you just want the raw module to get you into the photo module where you can go to work AP can be a good match."

What is the value of having "more/less" editing features available in RAW processing software? There is significant duplication of available adjustments in the Affinity Develop Persona and the Photo Persona (e.g., sharpness, contrast, exposure, etc). I assume there is similar duplication in Lightroom and Photoshop (true?).

Why isn't it OK to just do the minimum RAW processing required to get the file ready for the editing software (e.g., Affinity Photo Persona, Photoshop, etc)? As an example, you say the Affinity Development module doesn't have an HSL adjustment tool, why do you need it there when you have one in the Photo Persona?

So, given the overlap of capabilities, I'm still confused about how far to go in making image adjustments in the RAW development software, and at what point to transfer to the full-blown editing software. I raised this question at the Affinity forum but didn't get a satisfactory response....

Maybe this is going a bit far afield from the OP's question. If so, I apologize. Maybe this should be the subject of another thread?
Glad you chimed in Joe! I've read previous commen... (show quote)

Generally, especially with better software, making modifications using the original raw image will give superior results to making those same modifications directly to a jpeg via a pixel editor. For instance, with a raw image you can extract far more deep shadow detail with far less noise then you can editing a JPEG version of that same image in a pixel editor. You can also make far better white balance adjustments to raw files. The bottom line, is the difference in the quality of the results. That is why in the Adobe world, most people tend to use Lightroom to process their raw files as much as possible, and then send those raw files to Photoshop as a tiff file for further processing.

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Aug 2, 2019 19:47:04   #
John Sh Loc: Toronto, Australia
 
srt101fan wrote:
Check out Affinity Photo.


Affinity upgrades are free.

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Aug 3, 2019 06:51:09   #
srt101fan
 
John Sh wrote:
Affinity upgrades are free.


Yes, so far they have been....

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Aug 3, 2019 07:20:31   #
srt101fan
 
Ysarex wrote:
You have some excellent questions there that raise issues that can be very important. First there's an overriding caveat: how critical do you want to be -- what are your usage expectations. For an enthusiast having a good time taking photos some of the finer details are no big deal -- as it should be.

Great question: "Why isn't it OK to just do the minimum RAW processing required to get the file ready for the editing software (e.g., Affinity Photo Persona, Photoshop, etc)? As an example, you say the Affinity Development module doesn't have an HSL adjustment tool, why do you need it there when you have one in the Photo Persona?" An example is the best answer -- see snowman below. Bright saturated colors can be difficult when processing digital images. The snowman's hat is a case in point so too would be red roses etc. When loaded into any raw converter that hat oversaturates and posterizes into a solid red mass. The detail is there but it requires separate treatment. On the left I used the raw converters HSL tool to adjust only the red hat and then continued to convert the image to RGB. But Affinity can't do that and once the image is converted to RGB the hat can't be repaired. The only option with Affinity then would be to adjust the entire image so that hat retained detail (whole image gets darker and less saturated) and then after the conversion fix everything else that you had to screw up in order to save the hat. That's called doing it dumb.

Another great question: "What is the value of having "more/less" editing features available in RAW processing software? There is significant duplication of available adjustments in the Affinity Develop Persona and the Photo Persona (e.g., sharpness, contrast, exposure, etc). I assume there is similar duplication in Lightroom and Photoshop (true?)."

True to the LR/PS question. This is a workflow question. Affinity and PS are raster or sometimes called pixel editors. Raw converters like LR, Capture One, PhotoLab are parametric editors. Raster editors actually push around pixels, parametric editors keep a list of operations to apply. Walking down the processing road that difference is a great big stripe running down the middle of the road and you can stay on one side of the stripe or cross back and forth over it with implications for your workflow.

Here's a raw workflow goal: 100% non-destructive and non-linearly re-editable. What that means is that the editing work you do to process an image is both non-destructive of the original image and also non-destructive of your work, in other words if you decide to make a change later you don't have to do other work over -- just make the change. That goal may or may not matter and may be more or less important to different folks. For me it's an important goal. Parametric editors meet that goal and raster editors only meet it partially. So I for example don't want to cross that line. I have Affinity and Photoshop on my computers. I get paid to teach Photoshop and I help students using Affinity. Personally I use both very little to not at all because of that workflow goal. When I can avoid a raster editor I score an advantage by keep my workflow 100% non-destructive and non-linearly re-editable.

There's also a massive savings in disk storage space if you can keep the editing parametric.

Hope that helps.

Joe
You have some excellent questions there that raise... (show quote)


Joe, thank you very much for your reply. Very helpful with much to chew on. Important comment re "usage expectations"; that's something I need to think on more. The snowman's hat is an interesting, helpful example.

I guess I'm looking for a simple list of the minimum editing steps to do in the Develop Persona before moving to the Photo Persona. But things just aren't that simple. Or maybe I'm overthinking all this..... (I have been known to do that!😕)

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Aug 3, 2019 07:37:47   #
srt101fan
 
mwsilvers wrote:
Generally, especially with better software, making modifications using the original raw image will give superior results to making those same modifications directly to a jpeg via a pixel editor. For instance, with a raw image you can extract far more deep shadow detail with far less noise then you can editing a JPEG version of that same image in a pixel editor. You can also make far better white balance adjustments to raw files. The bottom line, is the difference in the quality of the results. That is why in the Adobe world, most people tend to use Lightroom to process their raw files as much as possible, and then send those raw files to Photoshop as a tiff file for further processing.
Generally, especially with better software, making... (show quote)


Thanks for responding mwsilvers. You got me thinking again about what happens when you move an image from the Affinity Develop module to the Affinity Photo module. You mention JPEGs and TIFFs, but Affinity transfers the developed image in a proprietary file format, not as a JPEG or TIFF. Wouldn't that make a difference?

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Aug 3, 2019 08:22:09   #
John Sh Loc: Toronto, Australia
 
srt101fan wrote:
Yes, so far they have been....


The develop persona is mainly for raw files although you can process jpgs here. Raw files MUST go through the develop persona before you can edit them in the photo persona and this is where the power of Affinity lives. This step also means you never touch the original raw file.

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Aug 3, 2019 08:31:30   #
BigDaddy Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
Cmbtvet wrote:
I would like some suggestions on Editing software. I shoot with a Nikon D3300 and D7200, I would like something that's downloadable to my computer that's 1 and done. I know PS and LR you can buy but also have to subscribe and pay either a monthly or annual fee. I want Something that works well with RAW (NEF) and JPEG, but don't want to pay the monthly or annual fees. I don't do a lot of editing but would like to get into it to enhance my photos like the horse show I did so I could block out some of the busy backgrounds and what not. any suggestions?
I would like some suggestions on Editing software.... (show quote)

I use 4 different photo editors, and all have their advantages. First, FastStone Viewer is free, and does a lot of stuff like crop, resizing, color adjustments, borders and so on. I bought Affinity Photo a while ago, it is OK but pretty difficult to use compared to PS and it has some limitations. I use CS2, which is really old, but does does about everything I ever need. Been using it forever which might make it harder for me to learn Affinity because it is close, but not the same as PS. This would not be a problem if you haven't used PS for 20 years.

Last and the one I recommend to you is ACDSee. This is the absolute best photo cataloger made. If you have more than a 500 photos, you must have a photo management program to organize and find your photo's. ACD is tops. Also, it is a superb photo editor that does about everything, including layers, repairs, special effects and so on but it is REALLY easy to use compared to other editors. It interfaces easily with all other editors so you can use the built in editor and/or any external editor with ease.

ACDSee Ultimate Pro is what you want. It goes on sale all the time and you should be able to get it for around the same price as Affinity, and it is a one time purchase, unlike PS. PS is still the best out there, but it is a rental, which sucks unless you do this for a living.

For a little over $100 you can have FastStone (free) and ACDSee Ultimate Pro and Affinity Photo, and you will have an awesome assortment that should do everything you need.

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Aug 3, 2019 09:27:26   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
srt101fan wrote:
Joe, thank you very much for your reply. Very helpful with much to chew on. Important comment re "usage expectations"; that's something I need to think on more. The snowman's hat is an interesting, helpful example.

I guess I'm looking for a simple list of the minimum editing steps to do in the Develop Persona before moving to the Photo Persona. But things just aren't that simple. Or maybe I'm overthinking all this..... (I have been known to do that!😕)


Minimum list for Develop Persona raw file. So I'd qualify that to further identify that list as if not right in the Develop Persona for a raw file then you take a hit moving forward.

1. White Balance
2. Tone adjustment so that critical diffuse highlights are not clipped. In snowman hat example the red channel was clipped so that moving forward that data was permanently lost. Don't move forward with permanent critical data loss.
3. If you intend to open shadows get it in ballpark before moving to Photo Persona.
4. Lens corrections? I think it best to do that in Develop especially next step.
5. Correct Chromatic Aberration.
6. Set output color space (ideally Pro-photo if further editing is expected).

Ready to move to Photo Persona to edit your raster image. AP defaults to a 16 bit RGB image in the Photo Persona which is good.

Joe

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Aug 3, 2019 09:40:08   #
Ysarex Loc: St. Louis
 
srt101fan wrote:
Thanks for responding mwsilvers. You got me thinking again about what happens when you move an image from the Affinity Develop module to the Affinity Photo module. You mention JPEGs and TIFFs, but Affinity transfers the developed image in a proprietary file format, not as a JPEG or TIFF. Wouldn't that make a difference?


Affinity moves a 16 bit RGB image from Develop to Photo (unless you specify 32 bit -- I wouldn't). It is not as such a proprietary format. Affinity has it's own proprietary aphoto format which can save an RGB image along with all the editing layers etc. -- save your work. That's the "save to disk" format. But when the image is first opened in the Photo persona it's just a plain old 16 bit RGB photo same as PS and most other raster editors -- three channels at 16 bit per. When you Develop a raw file in AP and it opens in the Photo Persona go to Document -> Convert Format/ICC Profile... to check what you've got.

JPEG is 8 bit and lossy compressed and that makes a big difference. PS or any raw converter can save a 16 bit TIFF and Affinity can open those no problem and you'd be in the exact same place as having developed a raw in Affinity and moved to Photo Persona -- no difference.

Joe

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Aug 3, 2019 10:03:30   #
srt101fan
 
John Sh wrote:
The develop persona is mainly for raw files although you can process jpgs here. Raw files MUST go through the develop persona before you can edit them in the photo persona and this is where the power of Affinity lives. This step also means you never touch the original raw file.


Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Yes, I was talking about RAW files. Given that there is significant overlap in the image adjustments available in the Develop and Photo modules, my concern is how much of the overlap (Exposure, Sharpening, Contrast, White Balance, etc) to do in Develop and what to leave for Photo.

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Aug 3, 2019 11:12:42   #
Jackjchow Loc: St Augustine, FL
 
Cmbtvet wrote:
I would like some suggestions on Editing software. I shoot with a Nikon D3300 and D7200, I would like something that's downloadable to my computer that's 1 and done. I know PS and LR you can buy but also have to subscribe and pay either a monthly or annual fee. I want Something that works well with RAW (NEF) and JPEG, but don't want to pay the monthly or annual fees. I don't do a lot of editing but would like to get into it to enhance my photos like the horse show I did so I could block out some of the busy backgrounds and what not. any suggestions?
I would like some suggestions on Editing software.... (show quote)


Photoscape X. Be sure you download the version with the “X”. It is free, very feature rich and has a ton of tutorials.
The Photoscape sans X is good, intuitive but not as feature-rich.

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