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Is mirrorless as we know it the future ...
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Jul 31, 2019 12:25:03   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Yup, I knew that.
--Bob
lamiaceae wrote:
View Cameras. I own two 4x5" ones. You knew that.

Also there were 35mm and other roll film formats the did not have a Rangefinder or Mirror, you just sort of eyed thru a frame or guessed. And yes, rangefinders had mirrors, tiny ones but not Reflex Mirrors.

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Jul 31, 2019 12:26:12   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
All the Leicas I've ever seen have mirrors. To which one are you referring?
--Bob
puku8849 wrote:
Leica

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Jul 31, 2019 12:46:35   #
rond-photography Loc: Connecticut
 
khorinek wrote:
Agreed, I guess what I meant was, as soon as they figure out a Mirrorless replacement for the 1DX II, it too will be replaced by mirrorless. The difference between DSLR's and Mirrorless is the mirror on DSLR's which IMO is a "weak point" of the entire system. Any moving part is subject to wearing out or breaking. Eliminating moving parts will create a camera that will/should last longer and be more reliable. Technology is rapidly progressing. The other stuff that comes with new cameras, such as EVF, Digic 8 Processors, etc, will come along regardless, as technology improves.
Agreed, I guess what I meant was, as soon as they ... (show quote)


As for moving parts, mirrorless cameras still have mechanical shutters, and they do wear out (and break in the middle of a shoot). Overall though it is a simpler mechanism.

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Jul 31, 2019 13:01:20   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
Doc Barry wrote:
Hi Bob,
I believe the first SLR camera was a medium format and was introduced in the mid 1880s. It wasn't until the 1920s that smaller format SLR camera was available and the 35 mm came about in the mid 1930s. Lots of others came into being after WWII, particularly in the 1950s and 1960s. Likely the most popular mirrorless camera in the past was the famous Kodak Brownie camera introduced in 1900 and unbelievably was made in one form or another until the 1980s! If memory serves me correctly, Kodak sold well over 100,000 cameras in 1900 alone. I have no idea how many total were produced, but saying it was tens of millions is likely not far off. I remember the thrill of taking my first photos with a Brownie camera my parents had.
Doc Barry
Hi Bob, br I believe the first SLR camera was a me... (show quote)

My 1st camera was a Brownie 620. Great camera for its time! Even had one of those big flashes w/ bulb and reflector.

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Jul 31, 2019 13:03:58   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
Bill_de wrote:
… or is it mirrorless cell phones? :sm01

"TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan’s Sony Corp (6758.T) surprised the market by reporting on Tuesday a record first-quarter operating profit despite the slowing gaming business, as strong demand for multiple-lens camera systems for smartphones boosted sales of image sensors."

---

In answer to your title, "yes"...

But there will always be holdouts, i.e.: 8 track tape, vinyl records, film cameras, dial telephones, vacuum tube radios, steam cars, DSLR's, etc.

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Jul 31, 2019 13:07:40   #
rmorrison1116 Loc: Near Valley Forge, Pennsylvania
 
rook2c4 wrote:
But they are not interchangeable lens cameras; lens attachments don't really count. "Mirrorless" is just a short way of saying "mirrorless-interchangeable lens camera" (or MILC)... which the cell phone camera is not.


Cell phone cameras do not have mirrors therefore they are mirrorless. That's what mirrorless means, does not have a mirror. Bridge cameras don't have interchangeable lenses and they don't have mirrors, making them, mirrorless.
What is shorter, 10 letters or 4 letters!? What is more specific, MILC or mirrorless?

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Jul 31, 2019 13:26:55   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
Cell phone cameras do not have mirrors therefore they are mirrorless. That's what mirrorless means, does not have a mirror. Bridge cameras don't have interchangeable lenses and they don't have mirrors, making them, mirrorless.
What is shorter, 10 letters or 4 letters!? What is more specific, MILC or mirrorless?

Some of the latest cell phone cameras now have mirrors to get longer focal lengths. Are they now no longer mirrorless?

bwa

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Jul 31, 2019 14:18:58   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
You are not listening! Your own words prove this. "...help the intrepid photographer to create (make) better pictures". Your own words, and I agree with them. The photographer makes the picture, not the camera. The camera is the device that records the picture and MILC'S do Not record digital images any better than DSLR'S.


Actually it is yourself who is not listening. You have now twice stated "MILC'S do Not record digital images any better than DSLR'S". I agree and have never argued against that wisdom. However I do think that a camera helps the photographer make the picture. Some cameras can do that better than others.

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Jul 31, 2019 14:22:40   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
f8lee wrote:
Ha, lots of semantics and silliness on this thread. "Mirrorless" just means "camera without mirror" ergo that's what Ansel Adams used.... Meanwhile, in terms of terminology, i prefer the acronym "EVIL" - Electronic Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens".

That said, nobody here has moved beyond the concept of the traditional camera layout in their prognostications. Nowadays almost all cameras follow the same design format - a lens is positioned in front of the imaging chip whicn in turn is more-of-less directly in front of the user's eye. That may change in the future, as EVF becomes better (which it no doubt will, as technology advances at an exponential rate).

Imagine a camera where the lens/imaging chip assembly is completely separated from the viewfinder component. Canon made a pro video camera a few years ago (and may still offer it today) with the "viewfinder/control" screen connected to the lens/chip unit by a 10 meter cable, the purpose being to be able to set the lens/chip on the end of a boom and still have complete and immediate control. Fo course, virtually all drone mounted cameras follow this design - the lens is "up there" while you stand on the ground viewing on your tablet wirelessly.

So move that the the "real camera" world; at some point your "viewfinder" may well be a pair of AR or VR glasses with a resolution and reaction speed indistinguishable from real life (which cannot be said for EVFs today) while the lens/chip unit might be a cube that is 2" on a side. The point is that comments relating to ergonomics ("EVILs are too small", etc.) may be mooted by a completely different approach to camera design.

Further, the lens itself might be radically different from what we have come to think of as an optical system - flat lenses are being developed that might make for some major changes:

Here's an article from 2015: https://newatlas.com/ultra-thin-flat-lens-harvard/36207/

And here's something more recent: https://www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2019/07/25/how-to-make-a-flat-lens
Ha, lots of semantics and silliness on this thread... (show quote)


Remember the Fresnel lens?

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Jul 31, 2019 14:25:56   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
lamiaceae wrote:
Remember the Fresnel lens?


Not sure - but I remember the Fresnel screen.

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Jul 31, 2019 14:29:26   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
photogeneralist wrote:
How did you come to that conclusion?


For a similar reason to why a PnS is not a MILC. SLRs and TLRs both have mirror but yet are very different types of cameras. Most terms are specific.

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Jul 31, 2019 14:33:06   #
lamiaceae Loc: San Luis Obispo County, CA
 
dick ranez wrote:
My first mirrorless camera with interchangeable lenses was a Leica M3, the basic design of which survives some 60 years later as the M240. The digital versions of "mirrorless" will continue to improve due to technology advances which will make them more full featured and easier to manufacture, with the corresponding price decrease or improved profits, and easier to use.


Actually your M3 does have two or three tiny internal mirrors as part of the rangefinder system. But of course it does not have a moveable Reflex Mirror.

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Jul 31, 2019 14:37:01   #
Delderby Loc: Derby UK
 
rmorrison1116 wrote:
Cell phone cameras do not have mirrors therefore they are mirrorless. That's what mirrorless means, does not have a mirror. Bridge cameras don't have interchangeable lenses and they don't have mirrors, making them, mirrorless.
What is shorter, 10 letters or 4 letters!? What is more specific, MILC or mirrorless?


I would think EVC would be more appropriate. (Electronic Viewfinder Camera). Covers every type including fixed lenses. (DSLR does not refer to interchangeable lens).
So we could have Bridge EVC, Compact EVC, SLR EVC etc.

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Jul 31, 2019 14:50:55   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
lamiaceae wrote:
Remember the Fresnel lens?


Of course, but read the linked articles to see how this new stuff differs from Fresnels

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Jul 31, 2019 14:51:51   #
f8lee Loc: New Mexico
 
Delderby wrote:
I would think EVC would be more appropriate. (Electronic Viewfinder Camera). Covers every type including fixed lenses. (DSLR does not refer to interchangeable lens).
So we could have Bridge EVC, Compact EVC, SLR EVC etc.


That’s why I like EVIL- electronic viewfinder interchangeable lens

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