Huey Driver Loc: Texas

The Sheep Dog

letmedance Loc: Walnut, Ca.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

Wow........

Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona

Interesting. I don't ever remember being feared. I was despised by many, spit on by a few, called a baby killer by one and ignored the rest of the time. People who live in a world where quick, irrevocable decisions that may cause injury or death to themselves or others are a special breed. All paramedics, some military, most law enforcement and firefighters are among this elite. The average person just can't understand that type of life and makes them uncomfortable with us and we with them.

To really trust your life to someone else is so foreign to most people that they don't know how to deal with people who do that on a regular basis. We don't understand them either and so military hangs with military, cops with cops, firefighters with firefighters, paramedics with paramedics. My experience, since we got past the Vietnam era, military, law enforcement and emergency response people are held more in awe than fear.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

I remember once reading about some politician in a North Eastern liberal state who wanted to ban Veterans from owning "assault rifles" or guns in general, because they knew how to use them. He also thought most veterans were violent natural killers and dangerous to society.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Many years ago when I got an armed security license from the state of CA in the class when the instructor asked what you would do if you were working as a guard and an active shooter starting shooting up the mall etc where you worked. His "correct" answer was observe and report to the police then take cover until they arrived and told you what to do.
When I said, direct people to safety/cover and find a good position to engage the shooter, advancing on him if you could do so with cover and avoid what they now call "collateral damage". He almost lost it, "No, observe and report, only!" I asked "If that is all we do, why are we armed?" He looked puzzled and asked "Are you a veteran?" I said "Yes, two years in Vietnam." He looked uneasy and said "Observe and report, only." He never did say why we were armed if we were not supposed to use those weapons.
When the class was over he told me he had almost washed me out because of my answer, but he had passed me anyway.

I did most of my security work for a small company owned by a friend. 90% was Industrial Alarm Response - I raced the cops to get there since I had the door keys and the alarm codes. I did do a bit of security at places like the VFW and other clubs on holiday nights when they had hundreds of cars parked to tempt thieves.
I also did some volunteer work guarding Fireworks stands run by the Eagles, Elks, VFW (fireworks stands are a holdup magnet - cash business and they could rip off fireworks at the same time).
I also guarded auctions run by another friend who specialized in gun auctions and weapon collections.
One was a huge collection of swords and edged weapons where I gave in to temptation and bought a Japanese Police Officer's dress sword. German made with a katana style blade and saber style hand grip in a nickle planted metal scabbard with saber style belt hangers. I almost bid on a real katana with blade broken in two pieces that had beautiful grips and scabbard but figured I couldn't afford it. It also had a letter from the GI who captured it after he saw a Japanese officer snap the blade between two rocks to keep it from being captured as he was bleeding out from wounds. Then it went for $25 less than I had thought of bidding. I still regret not bidding.

Curmudgeon Loc: SE Arizona

Not to denigrate your experience obtained in Vietnam but it has absolutely nothing to do with what happens in a shopping mall. In your first firefight did you have to consider what was behind the area you were shooting at? Did you even have a specific target?

This is what happened in my first, and only, civilian confrontation. I was confronted by a man in a parking lot late one night. Fortunately the whole area was unoccupied. When forced to defend myself with deadly force I drew my S&W Chief Special, held center if mass and carefully squeezed of 5 shots putting him down.

Yeah right What I really did was almost drop the gun getting it out of the holster, by now the combination of fear and adrenalin has my knees shaking and my arm turned to spaghetti. Forgetting everything I had practiced about sight picture and trigger control, I pointed the gun in the general direction of the target, closed both eyes tightly, took both feet off the ground and yanked the trigger until the gun went 'click', several times. I looked around he was gone. I sat down on the pavement,then I threw up all over myself.

Maybe somebody else is braver than I and I salute them. I am more afraid of a civilian with a gun than I am of a shooter. At least I know who and where it bad guy is.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

My unit compound had friendly force compounds on 3 sides, we always had to be aware of what was out there. And note I did say "avoid...collateral damage."
Maybe I am weird but when things started I always experienced an objective slowing down of time with what seemed all the time in the world to think. The world seemed to be in "slow mo". I got so calm it was like I didn't seem to even know anything was happening, or care much. Later when things were quiet was when I reacted and got nervous/scared thinking about "what the..." and what might have happened.
One night on outpost duty in a bunker with an 18 year old kid (I was an old man of 22) another bunker reported they saw enemy on the mountain side above the pass we were guarding and opened fire. Then they reported seeing muzzle flashes among the rocks and a second bunker starting firing at the "muzzle flashes". Basically they were firing at each other. All I saw was sparks as bullets ricocheted off rocks. I locked and loaded but did not fire as I saw NOTHING to fire at. Besides I was too busy with scanning the area for any activity and keeping that kid from firing in all directions, including towards our other bunkers. He also wanted to fire off flares and open our case of grenades and start throwing them down the mountain into the pass. One case of flares and one of grenades and then we would have none and he wanted to toss them into the dark just to be doing something. The next day a patrol went out and checked the mountain side the other bunkers had been firing at. No footprints, no broken vegetation, no spent brass, just scars on the both sides of the rocks from the ricochets. The Lt and platoon Sgt both repeated the compliment for fire discipline and keeping that kid under control they had given me during the night when the incident ended. I think the fact their bunker was the next one to ours and he would have been shooting at them had a lot to do it.

papaluv4gd Loc: durham,ct

Since when do copper plated lead projectiles give off sparks when the ricochet off rocks?

rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona

--Bob

papaluv4gd Loc: durham,ct

Hey rmalarz. In reference to your footnote. Will you still love me if I shoot MFT?

Herb Myles Loc: Florida

I am a 95 year old veteran of ww2 in the Pacific--your sheep rendition if quite nicely done but in "my case" --I don't quite get it -----isolation?????--maybe the wars and homecoming were so diferent????

Huey Driver Loc: Texas

I've had that happen when a bullet hit a rock. Don't think it had much to do with the makeup of the bullet but something about something in the composition of the rock

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

I had a similar experience when taking the classroom part of the Idaho Advanced CCW permit class. The class was in a room above a popular sporting goods store. The class was taught by a local prosecuting attorney with many years of teaching the class. One of his, What If questions was: What would each of us do if right then during the class we heard gun shots and screaming down on the floor of the store. Everybody else out of 6-7 attendees said they would seek cover to avoid the active shooter. Being an ex cop I said I would carefully go down the stairs in hopes of stopping the shooter before he could fire more rounds at customers. Everyone looked at me as if I was crazy. The prosecutor asked if I was a police officer. When I told him I was he said that explained my answer. Almost everyone who takes the class and when confronted by that question said they would avoid the active shooter. LEO personnel however generally answered they wanted to tactically see what was going on first and then confront and stop the shooter IF that was what was happening. He cautioned that the shot could have been just a customer who was trying to unload his firearm or was trying it in a new holster.

There is something positive to be said for those of us who will run into a dangerous situation trying to end the danger as opposed to those who continue running from the danger. Please believe me when I say I am not blowing my own horn. But I would much rather be one trying to stop the danger than one who runs from it. After all my family could be in that dangerous situation. Maybe your family too.

Dennis

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Well, they do, esp if they are AP (steel core) or tracers - those sometimes breakup and the burning compound flies away.

If the "rocks" have the right mineral content you can get sparks from hitting two rocks together.