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Placebo Pedestrian Push Buttons
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Jul 12, 2019 11:52:29   #
gleneric Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 
bobmcculloch wrote:
In NYC the buttons have been disconnected for years, common knowledge


I have heard of such practice, but have not personally encountered it in my work. As long as it is done in situations where the pedestrian signal displays come up automatically for each crossing direction on every signal cycle then I suppose there is no harm in leaving the disconnected buttons on the poles.

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Jul 12, 2019 13:40:06   #
AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio
 
rmalarz wrote:
Apparently, you are not knowledgeable regarding how these buttons work. The other possibility is the number of cities which you have visited is limited.
--Bob


Geessh, that kind of sounds like the 2 + 2 problem response from above.

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Jul 12, 2019 13:59:26   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Perhaps you're just as unknowledgeable about traffic control device programming as the OP. But then, if you're walking on air, you might not need crosswalks.
--Bob
AirWalter wrote:
Geessh, that kind of sounds like the 2 + 2 problem response from above.

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Jul 12, 2019 14:06:07   #
AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio
 
rmalarz wrote:
Perhaps you're just as unknowledgeable about traffic control device programming as the OP. But then, if you're walking on air, you might not need crosswalks.
--Bob


Excuse me your "All knowing person". Get over yourself. Too damn bad you can't take just a little humor in your life!

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Jul 12, 2019 14:09:29   #
1Feathercrest Loc: NEPA
 
dennis2146 wrote:
Wherever I have lived/visited the buttons seem to work as expected in a positive manner.

As Bob suggests, perhaps the amount of cities you have visited is limited.

Dennis


Correction: the number of cities....

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Jul 12, 2019 14:13:39   #
josquin1 Loc: Massachusetts
 
I live in the Boston area and they even admitted a couple of months ago that the buttons are no longer operational. They said the they cannot allow the flow of traffic to stop every time a pedestrian wants to cross and presses the button. The walk time is now just programmed in and after traffic in both directions go then the walk light comes on. So peds and cars are treated equally.

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Jul 12, 2019 14:37:41   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
I enjoy a lot of humor in my life. I just didn't see any in this thread yet.
--Bob
AirWalter wrote:
Excuse me your "All knowing person". Get over yourself. Too damn bad you can't take just a little humor in your life!

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Jul 12, 2019 14:44:49   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
1Feathercrest wrote:
Correction: the number of cities....


No, I said and meant the amount of cities. I do see your point but I will stick with my statement. Thank you very much for your correction though.

Dennis

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Jul 12, 2019 14:48:55   #
AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio
 
rmalarz wrote:
I enjoy a lot of humor in my life. I just didn't see any in this thread yet.
--Bob


No wonder. That's your problem.



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Jul 12, 2019 19:03:48   #
hassighedgehog Loc: Corona, CA
 
gleneric wrote:
The statement means exactly what it says ... pedestrian push buttons serve a specific purpose, and are essential in certain circumstances.

In locations where numbers of pedestrians are not high, the timing of the traffic signals is usually optimized for the vehicular movements, with a separate set of parameters established for those signal cycles when a pedestrian needs to cross. Pushing the button sends a "call" to the signal controller which then ensures that the pedestrian "walk" symbol is displayed at the next available opportunity. It may (or may not, depending on how it is programmed) shorten the green time for other signal phases in order to get the "walk" symbol displayed sooner, but rarely are things set such that pushing the button immediately gives the pedestrian complete priority. The lack of an instantaneous display of the pedestrian "walk" is what frustrates people and makes them think that the button is useless ... though buttons do fail and need replacement sometimes. The common practice of standing there banging the button continuously really serves no purpose other than "venting" I suppose. Even worse is hitting every pedestrian button at a signal that has buttons for different directions of pedestrian movement ... that could end up with there being more delay in you getting the "walk" symbol you are waiting for.
The statement means exactly what it says ... pedes... (show quote)

They work most of the time in Riverside and Corona. If you assume it will not work, and as a result do not push the button, it may never allow you to cross if it is at a major intersection. Cars have the priority UNLESS the button is pushed. Then you still have to wait for the traffic to be warned. Instant gratification is not a part of their programming, unlike the people who can't wait.

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Jul 12, 2019 19:09:45   #
AirWalter Loc: Tipp City, Ohio
 
hassighedgehog wrote:
They work most of the time in Riverside and Corona. If you assume it will not work, and as a result do not push the button, it may never allow you to cross if it is at a major intersection. Cars have the priority UNLESS the button is pushed. Then you still have to wait for the traffic to be warned. Instant gratification is not a part of their programming, unlike the people who can't wait.



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Jul 12, 2019 20:19:55   #
ButchS Loc: Spokane, WA
 
I will clue you in on the traffic signal button. No, the button is not a placebo. That said, what most people don’t understand, is that pushing it more than once is totally useless. The first person to push the button, within the current light sequence, trips a solenoid that lets the controller know someone is waiting. Once that solenoid is tripped it does absolutely no good to push the button additional times. The controller does not count the number of people waiting. It is strictly a yes/no parameter.

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Jul 12, 2019 22:19:57   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Exactly. Additionally, the trip should modify the timing to allow time for a pedestrian to cross entirely.
--Bob
ButchS wrote:
I will clue you in on the traffic signal button. No, the button is not a placebo. That said, what most people don’t understand, is that pushing it more than once is totally useless. The first person to push the button, within the current light sequence, trips a solenoid that lets the controller know someone is waiting. Once that solenoid is tripped it does absolutely no good to push the button additional times. The controller does not count the number of people waiting. It is strictly a yes/no parameter.
I will clue you in on the traffic signal button. N... (show quote)

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Jul 13, 2019 08:29:24   #
al13
 
The best traffic engineering I have see are in most Canadian Cities. All traffic stops for pedestrians. There are no turns, etc. Banff Canada has X style crosswalks so pedestrians can cross to either side of the street. I don’t remember if they had buttons on the traffic poles.

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Jul 13, 2019 08:55:11   #
gleneric Loc: Calgary, Alberta
 
al13 wrote:
The best traffic engineering I have see are in most Canadian Cities. All traffic stops for pedestrians. There are no turns, etc. Banff Canada has X style crosswalks so pedestrians can cross to either side of the street. I don’t remember if they had buttons on the traffic poles.


We do have a few of those intersections in downtown Calgary, and I believe they have pedestrian push buttons (however, push buttons are typically not used in downtown Calgary as the downtown signal system runs on a fixed time plan with pedestrians automatically accommodated during each signal cycle). Can't recall if the Banff ones have push buttons but will be out there in the next week or two and will have a look

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