Shooting model trains - need advice
Jul 9, 2019 10:30:25 #
You need to become acquainted with "focus stacking". Affinity has excellent capabilities in this area. I use it for the same sorts of shoots. It is not free, it costs 40 bucks. But, sometimes you just have to pay for the benefits you demand. There is FARTOOMUCH emphasis put on free stuff. You get what you pay for. If you have a lot of free stuff, that doesn't mean you are any good at photography, it just means that you are really cheap and parsimonious.
Jul 9, 2019 12:53:55 #
kmpankopf
Loc: Mid-Michigan; SW Pennsylvania
The photo club I belong to gets to shoot the Detroit Model Railroad Club's equipment once a year. It is very eye-opening. By far, my best shots are focus stacked. And the most appreciated by the club. I use Helicon Remote on a Samsung tablet to do all the math and focusing for me. I use Helicon Focus to do the stacking.
I like the Helicon focusing product because there are multiple methods of stacking. I've used all methods.
And I don't use the suggested number of shots per segment, I double it.
Getting to eye level generally produces the best view, although sometimes you get in tight quarters and you have to improvise.
I have battery grips on my cameras and I'll sit the camera on the tracks and put either a bean bag or rolled up sock under the lens. Great shot view.
If there are lights on the train unit, go with -1 EV to prevent a blowout on the light.
And with each year, I get smarter. Ha.
https://kurtpankopfphotography.blogspot.com/search/label/DMRRC
Above all, have fun.
I like the Helicon focusing product because there are multiple methods of stacking. I've used all methods.
And I don't use the suggested number of shots per segment, I double it.
Getting to eye level generally produces the best view, although sometimes you get in tight quarters and you have to improvise.
I have battery grips on my cameras and I'll sit the camera on the tracks and put either a bean bag or rolled up sock under the lens. Great shot view.
If there are lights on the train unit, go with -1 EV to prevent a blowout on the light.
And with each year, I get smarter. Ha.
https://kurtpankopfphotography.blogspot.com/search/label/DMRRC
Above all, have fun.
Jul 9, 2019 12:59:59 #
Jul 9, 2019 13:02:32 #
kmpankopf wrote:
The photo club I belong to gets to shoot the Detro... (show quote)
I like your blog and will spend time there later reading through it
Jul 9, 2019 13:21:38 #
nadelewitz
Loc: Ithaca NY
One of the two determining factors in depth-of-field is magnification (the other is aperture). Wide angles give greater d-o-f, but getting real close to the subject reduces d-o-f. It's a trade-off.
Jul 9, 2019 13:23:31 #
Steel,
You have wandered into a very difficult area. I've been a professional photographer most of my life, and I have shot model train photos and been in several national magazines. These models are the most difficult subjects I have shot.
Your problem is shooting close and expecting a lot of dof. Wont happen. Focus stacking is a recent development and has been a real advantage for this task.Here's what a lot of guys have done: Use a decent pocket camera, one with one of the so called one inch sensors. You will get a lot more dof.
Dont even think about shooting with a FF camera without focus stacking.
You have wandered into a very difficult area. I've been a professional photographer most of my life, and I have shot model train photos and been in several national magazines. These models are the most difficult subjects I have shot.
Your problem is shooting close and expecting a lot of dof. Wont happen. Focus stacking is a recent development and has been a real advantage for this task.Here's what a lot of guys have done: Use a decent pocket camera, one with one of the so called one inch sensors. You will get a lot more dof.
Dont even think about shooting with a FF camera without focus stacking.
Jul 9, 2019 14:12:09 #
A couple of helpful suggestions:
1. Check the specifications of your lenses to see how close you can get to the subject and have the lens in focus. Many photographers try to take close up photos and their lenses won't focus that close.
2. For hand held shots. Make sure your shutter speed is at least 1/focal length. Example: 200mm requires a minimum shutter speed of 1/200 sec. You must use a higher shutter speed for crop sensor cameras (multiply the focal length by at least 1.6 for APSC sensors and by 2 for Micro 4/3rds sensors) Example: 200 for a Canon APSC sensor is equivalent to 200mm X 1.6 = 320mm. 320mm requires a minimum shutter speed of 1/320 second. For a micro 4/3rds sensor it would be 200mm X 2 = 400mm. 400mm requires at least a 1/400 sec shutter speeds. If you don't follow these examples you may cause motion blur which is NOT an out of focus problem but the photographer's induced problem.
3. Go to www.dofmaster.com to calculate what your depth of field will be at the different focal lengths you want to use.
4. Depth of Field is a combination of: how far away you are from the subject; what focal length you are using; what your aperture is; and sensor size.
1. Check the specifications of your lenses to see how close you can get to the subject and have the lens in focus. Many photographers try to take close up photos and their lenses won't focus that close.
2. For hand held shots. Make sure your shutter speed is at least 1/focal length. Example: 200mm requires a minimum shutter speed of 1/200 sec. You must use a higher shutter speed for crop sensor cameras (multiply the focal length by at least 1.6 for APSC sensors and by 2 for Micro 4/3rds sensors) Example: 200 for a Canon APSC sensor is equivalent to 200mm X 1.6 = 320mm. 320mm requires a minimum shutter speed of 1/320 second. For a micro 4/3rds sensor it would be 200mm X 2 = 400mm. 400mm requires at least a 1/400 sec shutter speeds. If you don't follow these examples you may cause motion blur which is NOT an out of focus problem but the photographer's induced problem.
3. Go to www.dofmaster.com to calculate what your depth of field will be at the different focal lengths you want to use.
4. Depth of Field is a combination of: how far away you are from the subject; what focal length you are using; what your aperture is; and sensor size.
Jul 9, 2019 14:25:36 #
steelhorzz wrote:
I was asked by a friend to take some photos of his... (show quote)
Earlier I advocated using stacking for photographing model trains and I still do. It’s a technology that wasn’t available before the digital age and its results are far better than any other method I know of.
BUT! That being said, how you set up the shot has everything in the world to do with the end result. Getting up close gives one perspective often requested but it is very limiting (and reveals things like windshield wipers that look like 2X8s). DOF close up is minuscule. Using a full frame camera with a 35mm lens set for f/11 will give a DOF of about 6-3/4 feet. (587 ho scale feet) Before somebody chimes in about diffraction, meh. Models at high magnification aren’t tack sharp to begin with.
These two photos were shot over 40 years ago, 35- or 50-mm lens, probably f/16 and using a single 60 watt bulb. The foreground in one is soft be you know what’s there
Jul 9, 2019 15:25:28 #
Leitz
Loc: Solms
Rich1939 wrote:
Huh???
A 24mm lens at f/8 focused at 5 feet has a depth of field of 8.84 feet
A 50mm lens at f/8 focused at 5 feet has a depth of field of 1.34 feet
A 105mm lens at f/8 focused at 5 feet has a depth of field of 3.46 inches
A 24mm lens at f/8 focused at 5 feet has a depth of field of 8.84 feet
A 50mm lens at f/8 focused at 5 feet has a depth of field of 1.34 feet
A 105mm lens at f/8 focused at 5 feet has a depth of field of 3.46 inches
Depth of field changes because, at 5 feet, the field of view is different with each focal length. Suppose that the field of view with your camera and a 50mm lens at 5 feet covers the model train layout. You have to move in closer with a 24mm lens, and back farther with a 105mm lens to maintain that same field of view. In each case, at the same f/stop, the depth of field will be the same.
Jul 9, 2019 15:29:22 #
Leitz
Loc: Solms
John O. wrote:
4. Depth of Field is a combination of: how far away you are from the subject; what focal length you are using ...
Not so. See my reply to Rich1939.
Jul 9, 2019 15:29:41 #
A canon macro tilt/shift lens could help without stacking if done properly...
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Jul 9, 2019 15:34:51 #
DOF is DIRECTLY related to magnification and aperture - therefore as a consequence, INDIRECTLY to focal length and distance....
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Jul 9, 2019 15:44:44 #
I have taken many of model railroad photos in my lifetime using different camera and different lens combinations. What I have found out what you must do first and above ALL Lighting THE SUBJECT you are going to shoot. Regardless what you set the camera lens at the lighting has the best results for the camera.
The you use either a Monopod or a Tripod for the camera. No Flash. You use over the head lighting like a Professional would use and stand it up near the scene and bound it off the ceiling. This way you get no shadows on your photos. Look at some of the photos taken in Model Railroader or Model Railroad Craftsman and you can see how they have taken the photos and what kind of lighting they have used and go from there. It is a hit and miss for the first time until you get to know what you are doing taking these kind of photos you can get all the information you need but until you start doing it and seeing what is happening and how you go it by writing it down for your next shot and t hen going form there all we can say is good luck send us your photos. Would like to see how you have done in your first adventure doing this.
The you use either a Monopod or a Tripod for the camera. No Flash. You use over the head lighting like a Professional would use and stand it up near the scene and bound it off the ceiling. This way you get no shadows on your photos. Look at some of the photos taken in Model Railroader or Model Railroad Craftsman and you can see how they have taken the photos and what kind of lighting they have used and go from there. It is a hit and miss for the first time until you get to know what you are doing taking these kind of photos you can get all the information you need but until you start doing it and seeing what is happening and how you go it by writing it down for your next shot and t hen going form there all we can say is good luck send us your photos. Would like to see how you have done in your first adventure doing this.
Jul 9, 2019 17:11:04 #
kmpankopf
Loc: Mid-Michigan; SW Pennsylvania
Rich1939 wrote:
I like your blog and will spend time there later reading through it
Thanks!
Shooting the model trains has taught me a lot about photography. Fun subject.
Jul 9, 2019 17:29:17 #
Leitz wrote:
Depth of field changes because, at 5 feet, the field of view is different with each focal length. Suppose that the field of view with your camera and a 50mm lens at 5 feet covers the model train layout. You have to move in closer with a 24mm lens, and back farther with a 105mm lens to maintain that same field of view. In each case, at the same f/stop, the depth of field will be the same.
Photographing a model railroad is much like shooting a landscape scene in that you are often restricted as to how far you can maneuver. Lens choices then are based on what will get the job done from there.
If I only had a 50mm with me (we are supposing), at 5 feet the maximum width I could cover would be 3.6 feet with a DOF of 1.34’. To cover the same linear footage that a 24mm would have given me for this project, I would have to back up 11’+. (Tough when you’re in an attic or a garage). Backing up 11’ and of course refocusing, will result in the same coverage as a 24mm but with a DOF of 7.23 feet vs 8.84 for the 24mm at 5 feet with the same aperture. In this scenario,f/8
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