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Travel to Cuba
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Jul 8, 2019 14:40:27   #
d2b2 Loc: Catonsville, Maryland, USA
 
Blaster34 wrote:
So we are to allow the Iranians to take control of the Mideast, I see. Sometimes we have to work 'with' the better of two evils, SA or Iran, the biggest exporter of terrorism in the world; Like comments credited to FDR about Somoza, "yes he's a S O B but he's our S O B"....Fidel was worth ~Billion Dollars when he died, how much went to the people. The people suffer because its a totally repressive and brutal Regime


Staying with the International theme, you're argument has more holes than a block of Swiss cheese. First, there is no comparison between Cuba and Iran, in terms of military might, financial capability, the number of people involved, the religious fervor, and I could go on. Second, in no uncertain terms can you allow or promote genocide under any circumstances. And that is exactly what the US is doing through its actions in Saudi Arabia. Third, Islam is not some grand monolithic entity. There are far more Muslims being killed by other Muslims than there are in the way of a threat to the US and Israel, at any given moment in time. Conflict spawned in the Middle East and with Cuba have absolutely no comparative value. Any US action produces reactions - in many cases negative ones at that! Taking sides with one group immediately puts us in an antagonistic opposition with another.
In our experience, the people of Cuba love Americans, by everything we saw when we were there. They admire us and wish to be very much like us. That is the way one creates sentiment would form action that can benefit the eventual softening or even overthrow of the current government and policies. To reinstitute an even heavier embargo invites them to become disillusioned with us, because they are the ones being suffering, not their leaders. Their leaders have the opportunity to use the embargo against us, instituting greater anti-American sentiment. That is something we do not wish to incur, in my view. I could go on, but I don't believe it is necessary.

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Jul 8, 2019 14:40:33   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
Tomcat5133 wrote:
The rage here about your trip is totally ignorant. The more we keep up the visiting
and exchange of ideas the more Cuba will get better for the people. They don't even have
a proper internet at all. And the people want the country to be opened to investment and
visitors.
I am not a socialist but we could learn from everything. Cuba's medical service is among
the best in the world. We can help the growing and freedom in the country if they
have visitors and investments from our country and others.

This kind of anger here is what has got us into problems and wars. I read the other day
that the US has been at war 80% of the time since our country was started. For the people
of Cuba we should support visiting and creating a better economy and political's for the
country.
The rage here about your trip is totally ignorant.... (show quote)


Tomcat I think you are having delusions about Cuban health care being among the best in the world. In Cuba you bring your own stuff, like lightbulbs and bed sheets, etc.

The best paid Dr makes $67.00 a MONTH, and nurses make $40.00 a month. The Cuban Government PRIORITIZES health care.......in other words, decides who lives and dies.

The Cubans have no freedom and if you think otherwise, you are fooling yourself.

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Jul 8, 2019 14:41:58   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
berchman wrote:
Your trip to Cuba is being attacked by some right-wing proto fascists on this board, many of whom have served in the armed forces. When the president loses the next election and refuses to leave the White House, he will have the support of the military and the U.S.A. as we knew it will be kaput. I have toured Iran and never have I encountered such hospitable people. On the street they heard me and my companions talking in English, asked where we were from and when we told them, they came close to hugging us. The Revolutionary Guard and the religious fanatics are a very small part of Iran. I also toured Burma for three weeks, driven over 3,000 miles by a former taxi driver. We stayed at hotels not owned by the government and ate in small local restaurants. And Burma was ruled by the military, but the people benefited from whatever we spent locally. I live in an area that is so provincial that people find daunting the thought of traveling to NYC.
Your trip to Cuba is being attacked by some right-... (show quote)


Are you on drugs?

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Jul 8, 2019 14:47:11   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
CWGordon wrote:
This always seems to breakdown to political beliefs. Right-wing Trumpers seem to always know what is right and wrong. Usually, I disagree. Opening Cuba was a hot-potato issue when it happened. I was unsure what to think. Eventually, I determined that Japan and Germany and Italy, even Great Britain had done things I found unconscionable. Yet, we have normalized our relations with them. I bet those against dealing in and with Cuba are just fine with how Donald has toadied up to Putin. If they could only see the hypocrisy in this.
Cuba, like it or not, is a country that needs to learn about how freedom and Democracy work in most countries of the world (ours being given and taken away under the current regime). They need to talk to our citizens and need to know more about the traditional values we espouse. As they learn about our values and do more trade w/us, the Government will lose some grip and hold on the people. This is why they call it cultural exchange. This pulls their country more into our orbit! Of course, maybe you guys prefer to hear about the “love letters” our leader and N Koreas’ leader have been “supposedly” sending back and forth. Your leader says it’s a good thing! Of course, that is ok, but Cuba is not. Which country is the most horrible in regards to human rights? How about what this country is doing to immigrant children. Donald says we kill people ourselves. So, give it a break. This guy is helping build relations; a positive thing in todays’ world.
I could go into a bunch of other things you guys should worry about more than this. Our totally corrupt and developing Oligarchy. The obvious crimes we excuse daily for our leaders. The voter suppression issues, the election interference by Russia, the lies we are told about the Mueller report, the investigation into the investigation, the endless foreign policy decisions hurting us around the globe, the more than 10,000 lies we have heard and been told in the last couple years, the discrimination against people whose sexual orientation may not be the same as ours...heck, I could go on for hours about how the attacks on the press, free speech, etc. are affecting our democratic and free way of life, but no one like you bothers to be open-minded or to listen. Travel outside the country, talk to others who differ from you, try to listen, not just hear. I, like many others, chose to be nice and polite and not argue when ignorant things were being said the last few years. I, for one, am tired of being so accepting of ignorant and bigoted comments. It is time nice people “resisted” a bit and let others know we have strong feelings, too.
I am sure that it is the same people who write rude and insulting remarks to innocent questions by people seeking knowledge and assistance that now ignorantly condemn a guy who is trying to help people understand other people. He sought no political opinions, but you felt free to attack w/o understanding what he might be trying to accomplish. My Father was in WWll and saw many dead and dying people, he was there for the liberation of concentration camps. He taught me about freedom and the many who have fought and died for it, or who came back with limbs missing or psychological problems. You want to support freedom and the military write your Congressmen about the deplorable state of the VA hospitals. Blindly saying you support the military w/o knowing what the military is all about is, once again, hypocrisy. It is not about putting tanks in the parade, it is about the vital and dangerous work they do to protect freedom. Countries like Russia and N Korea parade their military to intimidate their own and other people. The brave men and women who fight and represent our country do not need to show off, they should be thanked for their sacrifices. Give them better equipment, better hospitals and care when they need it.
I have in the past opposed the ridiculing and mean-spirited comments some of you make. I have also opposed this forum being made into a political forum. That is not needed. A little compassion for those who ask for your help is a small thing. Even if you think a question is stupid, does it make you bigger to make them feel smaller? It is you who are the smaller person. I will wager that many mothers have told you if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing! Some of you should have listened a bit better. I know I will receive negative comments from some of you regarding this message. That’s ok. I never expected you would understand my point, anyway. I will make a deal w/you, however. You keep your politics to your selves and I will, too.
Oh, and by the way, I would be interested in traveling to Cuba. I would appreciate learning more about the proposed trip. Price is important, as always, but even more, the itinerary.
I thank those who may disagree w/me for, at least, reading my writing.
This always seems to breakdown to political belief... (show quote)


Instead of focusing on Cuba your did the usual liberal rant about Trump, politis, the government and sound ignorant. Why couldn't you keep the BS to just Cuba and leave the President out of it? Because you are another hate filled liberal snowflake who will cry your little eyes out in 2020.

You forgot to keep your liberal politics to yourself.

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Jul 8, 2019 14:51:51   #
Elaine2025 Loc: Seattle, Wa
 
thegrover wrote:
I too have been to Cuba and would love to go back. Cuba was nothing like all the negative propaganda I had heard my whole life. The people are amazing and enjoy life. Those who are bashing Cuba think how we look to other countries. I have been to 38 countries, I support a world view,


It isn't bashing Cubans, it is bashing the communist government. The Cuban people DO NOT KNOW WHAT FREEDOM IS. Imagine how happy they would be if they were able to have freedom.

When you go there, you are supporting the communist regime that does not treat it's people well.

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Jul 8, 2019 14:53:24   #
ronichas Loc: Long Island
 
I am always amazed how mean-spirited, rude, crude, insulting and just plain hostile some people are on UHH.

This was NOT a political conversation. But those who feel that have to express themselves just get lost in an angry exchange.

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Jul 8, 2019 15:15:27   #
srt101fan
 
ronichas wrote:
I am always amazed how mean-spirited, rude, crude, insulting and just plain hostile some people are on UHH.

This was NOT a political conversation. But those who feel that have to express themselves just get lost in an angry exchange.


You started a serious topic and said nothing that should have caused this vitriol. The intemperate comments by some led admin to move your topic to "The Attic". And then the real "mean-spirited, rude, crude, insulting and just plain hostile" creatures emerged from under the rocks. Time for those of us unintentionally dragged into the Attic to return to daylight and fresh air.....

There is nothing wrong with visiting Cuba as long as you don't break any U.S. laws. And you have certainly shown that your travel is perfectly legal. Enjoy!

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Jul 8, 2019 16:21:11   #
yhtomit Loc: Port Land. Oregon
 
ronichas wrote:
I am co-leading a photo tour of Cuba in January 2020.
We will stay in private homes and travel in the classic cars.
The travel agent has been doing this for 12 years and her license is not affected
but the travel limits to Cuba.

We will go to Vinales, Havana and Trinidad (Cuba)
I am not sure if I can post the itinerary here.

PM me if interested.


Boycott Cuba until they have free elections. Wake up, one dollar of freedom money that gets on Cuban soil
prevents freedoms at all levels. I would love to go, but I will not support the oppression of fellow humans.

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Jul 8, 2019 17:10:28   #
Cookie223 Loc: New Jersey
 
Elaine2025 wrote:
How liberally ignorant of you to call them "Internment Camps" at the border. The people in the detention facilities CAN WALK OUT ANY TIME THEM WANT AND GO BACK WHERE THEY CAME FROM. They choose to stay for all the free shit we will give them.


You're absolutely correct!

They put themselves in the position they're in, hoping that the clueless will support them at least for the "Children". If their claims of horrible conditions are correct, then those conditions they, and the Lib's claim, are superior to where they came from. Also if it's that hard, why do they continue to have kids and demand that we support them?

I suggest for anyone that thinks these people should be allowed into our country illegally (not following our immigration laws) please adopt a family of your choosing, provide housing, food, health care, and clothing at your expense without any government assistance, for the rest of their lives. Lets see how long it takes before you want the wall built.

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Jul 8, 2019 17:22:17   #
Cookie223 Loc: New Jersey
 
yhtomit wrote:
Boycott Cuba until they have free elections. Wake up, one dollar of freedom money that gets on Cuban soil
prevents freedoms at all levels. I would love to go, but I will not support the oppression of fellow humans.


We had the chance to overthrow Castro back in 61, but regretfully JFK pulled the plug on the CIA promised air support. Quite a few expatriates lost they're lives, and some were captured, imprisoned and tortured.

For the past 60 years the Cuban people only knew communism, and are still oppressed.

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Jul 8, 2019 18:29:00   #
CWGordon
 
I would have responded to your contribution, but couldn’t understand most of it.

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Jul 8, 2019 18:55:23   #
parishard
 
Obama would bow to and kiss the ass of any and every dictator he could get an audience with. Quite frankly, I am tired of looking at his the seat of his pants.

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Jul 8, 2019 18:57:49   #
dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho
 
Bobspez wrote:
I believe Obama did all he could legally do, including visiting Cuba. I think it is up to congress to remove the remaining resrictions...

“Like so many people in both of our countries,” he said in his televised speech in Havana on March 22, 2016, “my lifetime has spanned a time of isolation between us. The Cuban Revolution took place the same year that my father came to the United States from Kenya. The Bay of Pigs took place the year that I was born. The next year, the entire world held its breath, watching our two countries, as humanity came as close as we ever have to the horror of nuclear war."

“As the decades rolled by, our governments settled into a seemingly endless confrontation, fighting battles through proxies. In a world that remade itself time and again, one constant was the conflict between the United States and Cuba.”

Differences remained, Obama cautioned, and the two countries continued to be divided on their systems of government, their economic models and their ideas about individual rights.

But “I have come here to bury the last remnant of the Cold War in the Americas,” he said. “I have come here to extend the hand of friendship to the Cuban people.”

I haven't heard of the money angle but why would the richest country on earth want or need money from one of the poorest? It's like saying the state of California shouldn't do anything for the homeless and poor because they don't spend money at Disneyland.
I believe Obama did all he could legally do, inclu... (show quote)


Yes I believe what you say is true. But the problem is not our Congress approving anything. It was the Cubans who basically told Obama to kiss off. I agree with you regarding why should America spend a penny in or on Cuba. With that, I believe is the crux of the matter and the reason this post has gravitated to The Attic.

The OP has eloquently stated that it is the Cuban people who are reaping the benefits of tourism. Honestly I don’t know how that can be in such a Socialist State. Yet she believes it. Personally I just don’t care. But I do hate seeing the Cuban State doing well from help from America. Obama offered them a pretty good benefit and expected something in return. It never happened. Screw Cuba.

Dennis

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Jul 8, 2019 22:08:14   #
CWGordon
 
WOW! Let it go guys!
Do you really believe the stuff you hear on Fox! All opinion. Listen to the other Channels you hate for a week. You might see the stuff they say is actually backed-up and really is fact.
Let us all stop political s*** here on this forum. This is not what this forum is supposed to be about. Stop alienating so many of our fellow contributors. Be NICE!

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Jul 8, 2019 22:12:58   #
yhtomit Loc: Port Land. Oregon
 
CWGordon wrote:
WOW! Let it go guys!
Do you really believe the stuff you hear on Fox! All opinion. Listen to the other Channels you hate for a week. You might see the stuff they say is actually backed-up and really is fact.
Let us all stop political s*** here on this forum. This is not what this forum is supposed to be about. Stop alienating so many of our fellow contributors. Be NICE!


Do you know where you are? This is the free speech area of the hog.
Looks like the post was moved here.
What are your trusted media sources you rely on for the truth?

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