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Is there a law in Japan that camera 'manuals' must be total crap?
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May 30, 2019 07:40:27   #
ngrea Loc: Sandy Spring, Maryland
 
jerryc41 wrote:
The warnings are required. I've bought products that had an entire booklet devoted to safety alone.

As for the writing, I could never understand why foreign countries can't write in proper English

For 20 years I supervised well-educated Americans who were writing reports and brochures. It was amazing to me how poorly our schools and universities teach English writing skills. I do not find it surprising that people writing in a non-native language have problems. English is a mix of many languages. It is more complex than most. While it is richer and can convey subtle ideas well, it is hard to learn all the exceptions to the rules of spelling, grammar and synonyms, etc.
While I understand your desire for a hard copy, I enjoy having electronic manuals that I can access from my phone when I am away from home. And I don’t mind saving a tree.

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May 30, 2019 07:58:59   #
Nikon1201
 
I would go to utube and listen to the tutorials and how to set up videos . They are much easier for me .

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May 30, 2019 08:02:16   #
HOHIMER
 
awesome14 wrote:
Just google the camera model and 'manual'. I've seen many times where the manufacturer just wants to include something on paper, but it terrible, and the keep much more complete documentation on the website. I even had a written manual tell me the product would make me 'satifying' (sic) if I refrain from pounding nails through it, and keep away from 'grim orifice'.

I don't know what that is, so I figure I'm safe!


no! You not safe. Much 'grim orifice' all lound!

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May 30, 2019 08:20:29   #
mizzee Loc: Boston,Ma
 
I think the manual writers are chosen based on lack of logic, poor organization skills or... the manufacturer used a translation app that they bought on sale!

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May 30, 2019 08:20:50   #
JJS Loc: SE Michigan & SW Florida
 
kymarto wrote:
Did you see this? Took me all of 30 secs. to google it:

https://archive.org/details/DMC-G85


Good one.

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May 30, 2019 08:56:03   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
I find that in general it's better to buy an aftermarket guide on your camera. They usually give much better explanations than just telling what the settings are. Although looking at that 330 page manual for the G85, I'd say it looks very good.

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May 30, 2019 09:21:00   #
fetzler Loc: North West PA
 
I don't know if you have the advanced manual or not. Here is a link to the advanced manual for the G85. It is available in several digital formats. I would choose the pdf version.

https://archive.org/details/DMC-G85

My Nikon manuals are pretty good but there a lot of features. I generally read a manual cover to cover once to see if there are any nuggets of info. My Olympus PEN F manual is less good. Some features are not explained. playing with the camera helps.

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May 30, 2019 09:44:40   #
CWGordon
 
I don’t believe the “warnings” are required; companies have found people actually do these stupid things. Therefore, simple defense for liability is to print the warnings. Costs little; saves a lot.
Manuals were poor for years. Now they just don’t give you one and tell you to print out/download your own. I am not gonna do that with hundreds of pages. The third party books are generally better. I can probably buy one for about the same as the real cost to download. Don’t forget your time involved. I also would want to pay to have the thing bound and covered. Who the heck wants to carry 400 loose pages around in the car. So, the after market books make a lot of sense, to me.
As a manufacturer I would want to put the best manual I could out there for my customers. You would think it would save money in the long-run and maybe warranty claims would be reduced! What a concept. However, camera and electronic companies are not stupid and have done cost analysis, I am sure. They have saved an entire expensive process and the significant cost of producing a book that most consumers throw away. Remember when you used to get several manuals - in different languages - most of which were thrown away? It must not be cost effective or they would still be providing them.
Many companies in many countries simply cannot spend the lengthy time and money to go through the process to print. These are fast moving enterprises with lots of competition. Speed in getting the product to market is of paramount importance. Delay means your competitor might beat your product to market. Their product might render yours obsolete! The race is on everyday with every product. Can you really blame them for cutting out the delays, costs, and risks that translating, proofing, printing, shipping, and packaging would entail. These products often have short shelf life before they are superseded in the market place by newer more technologically advanced features.
Make hay while the sun shines, is an old American farmers saying. True for farmers back then, it seems no different for foreign and domestic tech companies, today.

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May 30, 2019 09:44:49   #
dpfoto Loc: Cape Coral, FL
 
Radio stations used turntables (years ago) for playing vinyl records. I remember seeing in the manual for a "made in Japan" turntable, a section on Lubrication. It was titled, "RUBRICATION".

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May 30, 2019 09:55:30   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
I am learning the Panasonic Lumix G85. The manual is tiny spindly sans serif unreadable type, often fractured 'English.' It is incomplete with many things not listed at all and others not explained. The first 8 pages and much throughout are idiotic safety warnings like 'don't let baby eat accessories' or don't pour gasoline on camera. The table of contents is crap and incomplete, many illustrations are too tiny and poorly-printed to be useful. There is NO index. The manual says a more detailed manual is available as a PDF on the website, but the link doesn't work!

Is there a law? Is the crappiness deliberate? Or is gypping us this way, their much-delayed revenge for the plutonium firecrackers?
I am learning the Panasonic Lumix G85. The manual ... (show quote)


Rolling on the floor laughing!! Plutonium firecrackers, indeed!

Give them a break. They're Japanese who write English as a second language. They do not always translate structurally, as our language is sequenced differently.

The warnings are there because they have lawyers who insist they be there. "Do not shove silicon gel packets up nose. Do not take bath with battery charger. Do not eat memory cards..." These things are obvious, but they're there because they want to avoid losing frivolous lawsuits.

If you're looking for WHY or WHEN to use particular controls, look to a third party book on the camera that also covers principles of general photography. Camera manuals are notorious for naming each control and telling you only what it does, and not why or when that's important.

Fortunately, the G85 is one of the very best all-around entry-level enthusiast cameras made. All but a couple of the controls are in ergonomically correct places, the menus are organized simply, logically, and have built-in help, and the overall build quality is great for the price. The FEATURE set of that camera is extensive and well balanced between still and video photography. The only thing I would have added is a headphone jack.

As a life long writer of manuals and training videos, I sympathize. I also know that if you dig in and decipher the damned thing, it will make sense. After reading about my fourth or fifth Japanese camera manual (back in the 1980s), I understood the JEnglish structure, so it became less tedious. After my second one in 1969 (age 14), I understood enough about photography to know what to do with each control. After reading a Nikon D100 manual in 2003, I knew the basics of digital cameras.

So my advice to you is patience and diligence and determination. It will all make more sense if you read it three times. First, get a sense of what's there and how to get started. Second, clarify what you don't know, after using the camera for a day or two. Third, refine your approach by learning more subtleties.

Photography is a journey, not a destination. Here's a link to the PDF file of the full Owner’s Manual
for advanced features. You can download it to your computer, tablet, or smartphone. Be sure to read pages 2 and 3. This is a hyperlinked file... it is ten times more useful than a printed manual. OH, and this one? It is written quite clearly!

https://static.bhphotovideo.com/lit_files/286639.pdf

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May 30, 2019 09:56:50   #
Piltdown1952
 
It does appear to be a requirement across brands. I hate to admit it on a public forum, but I bought and use "Nikon D7100 for Dummies." LOL (at myself).

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May 30, 2019 09:57:13   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
dpfoto wrote:
Radio stations used turntables (years ago) for playing vinyl records. I remember seeing in the manual for a "made in Japan" turntable, a section on Lubrication. It was titled, "RUBRICATION".


Rub-rication... isn't that a trade name for a massage lubricant?

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May 30, 2019 10:02:58   #
bsprague Loc: Lacey, WA, USA
 
Panasonic has their own page for the camera. There is a tab for "Support". Within are links to everything from manuals to firmware updates. Panasonic's habit is to have a "basic" manual to get one started and an "advanced" manual with all the details.

The advanced manual for the G85 is 338 pages long, in color and has a complete table of contents. It can be printed. If used as a PDF it has connected links and search systems within it.

https://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/lumix-interchangeable-lens-ilc-cameras/DMC-G85MK.html#start=1&cgid=cameras

I own a couple Panasonic cameras. There are setting that make it as easy to use as any camera. There are also all the advanced, complex settings of any current, advanced mirrorless cameras. To explain all that is not light reading.

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May 30, 2019 10:04:43   #
burkphoto Loc: High Point, NC
 
spywayman wrote:
My Toyota, bought in the UK ten years ago, has pen and ink drawings, some showing RHD and some LHD. Surely it would be simple enough to get a native English speaker to write these manuals.


If you think that's bad, assemble some IKEA furniture. There is almost NO text. The assembly is ALL done from diagrams and a parts list.

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May 30, 2019 10:07:42   #
BobHartung Loc: Bettendorf, IA
 
Los-Angeles-Shooter wrote:
I am learning the Panasonic Lumix G85. The manual is tiny spindly sans serif unreadable type, often fractured 'English.' It is incomplete with many things not listed at all and others not explained. The first 8 pages and much throughout are idiotic safety warnings like 'don't let baby eat accessories' or don't pour gasoline on camera. The table of contents is crap and incomplete, many illustrations are too tiny and poorly-printed to be useful. There is NO index. The manual says a more detailed manual is available as a PDF on the website, but the link doesn't work!

Is there a law? Is the crappiness deliberate? Or is gypping us this way, their much-delayed revenge for the plutonium firecrackers?
I am learning the Panasonic Lumix G85. The manual ... (show quote)


Took maybe 30 seconds to find these:

DMC-G85 Operating Instructions and advanced features or from B&H Here

Owner's Manual

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