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What's going on here? Over-exposure.....but why?
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May 2, 2019 08:10:34   #
Nikon1201
 
Get into the habit of looking at your histogram .

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May 2, 2019 08:17:21   #
JCam Loc: MD Eastern Shore
 
clherms wrote:
Thank you! I usually do adjust in post when this happens....am trying to understand it more. Appreciate your input!


Perhaps you don't even need the flash. Have you tried increasing the lSO?

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May 2, 2019 09:00:04   #
gvarner Loc: Central Oregon Coast
 
Try this with your SB800 indoors: flash in TTL mode, camera in Manual, ISO 400, shutter at 1/200 and aperture at F4.5. There are two sources of light when using a flash, the flash and ambient light. The TTL mode controls the light on the subject. The shutter speed reduces the effect of ambient light. Aperture can be changed to affect DoF and ISO can be increased to get a bit more reach from the flash. The flash will adjust its power output to get proper exposure. If you still have exposure issues, then it may be an aperture issue in the lens.

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May 2, 2019 09:38:15   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
I hope all the opinions you are getting here are not confusing you more. If something you indeed need to know is the fact that a wide aperture or maximum aperture of a lens will yield very good results if the exposure is accurate.
The scene you were photographing, as it was pointed out by another member, has a wide dynamic range. That means that the difference in exposure between the shadow areas and highlights is wide enough that the sensor of the camera cannot register all the information. In a case like this flash is a good solution BUT you need to know how to use flash. Direct flash is not the answer, bouncing from a white surface like the ceiling or a wall is a much better solution.

In Aperture Priority the camera usually selects the flash sync speed at 1/60 sec. Many times a slower shutter speed is needed to bring more ambient light into the camera so using the Manual Mode is a better decision. Before I go any further the lens opening determines the flash exposure while the shutter speed influences the ambient light. Flash sync speed means those shutter speeds at which the flash will work and camera manufacturers usually mention 1/125 or 1/250. Those are the maximum shutter speeds your flash will normally operate. From there down the flash will work. High speed sync is another thing but I will not make you more confused with it.

I do not use matrix metering often but I would have used it in this case. In camera flash as you have seen is not very useful under the circumstances and bouncing the light would have yield a better exposure and most probably would have eliminated unwanted reflections. If you used spot metering I would have taken a meter reading of the outdoor light and set the camera at that exposure and then used flash for fill-in. Not doing so means you have to go with HDR photography that combines shadows and highlights into a better exposure. Plenty of information if you do a Google search.

You need to understand what the exposure meters of your camera do and when to make corrections. You also will benefit your tricky exposures when using flash to cut down contrast reducing the dynamic range between shadows and highlights. Learn to work in Manual Mode where you have total control of your settings. If there is a local or nearby camera club in your area joining them is a good way of learning since they have experienced photographers always willing to teach.

There are many tutorials on exposure and flash photography in the Web but nothing like having a person in front of you explaining how to set your camera and as a bonus you can ask questions to learn even more.
Begin by understanding exposure.

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May 2, 2019 11:51:19   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
martinfisherphoto wrote:
Before I make any suggestions about using flash or flash modes, metering or metering modes ect.. I'm going to suggest getting the book Understanding Exposure IIIrd edition by Bryan Peterson. Until you understand how a camera reads and exposes for light all of the explanations in the world will only confuse you more. You can find the book used on the internet for 5 or $6 the best money you will ever spend. This will save you Hundreds of hours, please purchase and read.......P.S. it is not the lens.......
Before I make any suggestions about using flash or... (show quote)


Right on the $$$ Martin. Nothing replaces fundamental understanding of the basic principles of photography and associated equipment. It is a great read that will educate & illuminate (pun intended) every would-be photographer's mind!

Cheers!

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May 2, 2019 11:53:56   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
clherms wrote:
Thank you! I usually do adjust in post when this happens....am trying to understand it more. Appreciate your input!


You are doing exactly what, in my mind good photographers should... Improving the original in camera IQ before relying on post work-flow.

Cheers!

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May 2, 2019 11:56:52   #
xt2 Loc: British Columbia, Canada
 
jerryc41 wrote:
My first thought. That's where post processing comes in handy. Especially shooting in raw, it's rather easy to compensate for light and dark areas.


I agree in principle Jerry, however, aren't we becoming a bit lazy as we rely on RAW and post-flow to repair our incompetence behind the lens by not understanding the fundamentals of light and how it effects our art?

Cheers!

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May 2, 2019 12:19:50   #
carl hervol Loc: jacksonville florida
 
This is where I use a light meter.

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May 2, 2019 12:46:34   #
DanielB Loc: San Diego, Ca
 
clherms wrote:
Hi all:

I am learning so much from all of your topics and appreciate the chance to better my skills. Here's a question I have had. I have a Sigma 17 - 50 2.8 EX HSM. I find I continually get over-exposed shots and am trying to determine if the lens has an issue or it's just my lack of experience. I am shooting on a Nikon D3400 in this case.

Pic 3 here - my internal meter was telling me to add more light so I was about 2 stops too dark; exposure on Aperture priority 1/60th at f2.8; 800 ISO; 17 mm. Flash on.

Pic 1 here - my internal meter was telling me to add more light so I was about 1 stop too dark; exposure on Aperture priority 1/60th at f5.0; 800 ISP; 17 mm. Flash on.

Pic 2 here - auto settings which shoot on 1/200th at f2.8; 800 ISO; 17 mm. Flash on.

Obviously I was not trying to set a beautiful shot here - just the same one for comparison.

So it's not uncommon with this lens to get the example of picture #3 when shooting on A mode. I get I was wide open on the lens. I get the internal meter isn't always accurate. I get that manual is always better. Is this a need to drop the ISO? In A mode the shutter speed should be moving to compensate.

I am trying to figure out why this is happening consistently. I also see this often when I pop on my SB800 flash. I always thought the flash was having issues but now suspect the lens. Lens not in warranty as it was purchased from a friend (which invalidates the warranty). Last time I do that.

Appreciate your responses!

Cynthia
Hi all: br br I am learning so much from all of y... (show quote)


If your using a flash on ETTL your camera is metering all the light your flash is throwing out. Did you notice the reflected light off the iPad? Your bouncing that flash right back at you. It doesn't matter what your spot metering when that much light is being bounced back at you. Try bouncing your flash off the ceiling or point it up with a flash diffuser on. If it's a built in flash they have diffuser's for those also. Otherwise change the angle of the iPad so the light doesn't reflect back at you.

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May 2, 2019 12:56:20   #
jeep_daddy Loc: Prescott AZ
 
clherms wrote:
Hi all:

I am learning so much from all of your topics and appreciate the chance to better my skills. Here's a question I have had. I have a Sigma 17 - 50 2.8 EX HSM. I find I continually get over-exposed shots and am trying to determine if the lens has an issue or it's just my lack of experience. I am shooting on a Nikon D3400 in this case.

Pic 3 here - my internal meter was telling me to add more light so I was about 2 stops too dark; exposure on Aperture priority 1/60th at f2.8; 800 ISO; 17 mm. Flash on.

Pic 1 here - my internal meter was telling me to add more light so I was about 1 stop too dark; exposure on Aperture priority 1/60th at f5.0; 800 ISP; 17 mm. Flash on.

Pic 2 here - auto settings which shoot on 1/200th at f2.8; 800 ISO; 17 mm. Flash on.

Obviously I was not trying to set a beautiful shot here - just the same one for comparison.

So it's not uncommon with this lens to get the example of picture #3 when shooting on A mode. I get I was wide open on the lens. I get the internal meter isn't always accurate. I get that manual is always better. Is this a need to drop the ISO? In A mode the shutter speed should be moving to compensate.

I am trying to figure out why this is happening consistently. I also see this often when I pop on my SB800 flash. I always thought the flash was having issues but now suspect the lens. Lens not in warranty as it was purchased from a friend (which invalidates the warranty). Last time I do that.

Appreciate your responses!

Cynthia
Hi all: br br I am learning so much from all of y... (show quote)


Cynthia,

There could be some other problems that are causing this to happen. First, which flash are you using? Are you in fact using the SB800 or are you using the pop up flash on your camera? You say the meter is telling you to add more light in 2 of the pics. Exactly how is the meter telling you this and then how are you adding the more light? In pic 3 your f/stop is at f/2.8 and you said that it's telling you that you need 2 more stops of light and that pic 1 you are at f/5.0 and are only 1 stop too dark. This can't be true because pic 3 is allowing more light in because your lens is wide open at f/2.8 and would be much brighter already compared to the other one at f/5.0. So this is off.

Are you sure that you don't have your camera in bracketing mode?

Next, if you need help with your images, ALWAYS tick the box that says (store original). This allows us to see the metadata which has all your camera and flash settings saved.

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May 2, 2019 13:00:44   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
xt2 wrote:
I agree in principle Jerry, however, aren't we becoming a bit lazy as we rely on RAW and post-flow to repair our incompetence behind the lens by not understanding the fundamentals of light and how it effects our art?

Cheers!


Not at all. You can and should manage exposure to maximize the amount of picture information you record. Relying on post processing to expand the range of brightness, contrast and depth of color just means that your images will look better. Provided you know what you are doing.

In the old days with black and white, we would expose for the shadows and develop for the highlights, then dodge and burn until you got the results you were looking for.

What you refer to as laziness and incompetence is actually a higher level of skill required, along with a deeper understanding of light in order to achieve a desired result.

Lazy and incompetent might be used to describe the photographer who skips the post processing step - leaving money on the table so to speak.

Cheers!

Reply
 
 
May 2, 2019 13:11:23   #
PGHphoto Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
clherms wrote:
Hi all:

I am learning so much from all of your topics and appreciate the chance to better my skills. Here's a question I have had. I have a Sigma 17 - 50 2.8 EX HSM. I find I continually get over-exposed shots and am trying to determine if the lens has an issue or it's just my lack of experience. I am shooting on a Nikon D3400 in this case.

Pic 3 here - my internal meter was telling me to add more light so I was about 2 stops too dark; exposure on Aperture priority 1/60th at f2.8; 800 ISO; 17 mm. Flash on.

Pic 1 here - my internal meter was telling me to add more light so I was about 1 stop too dark; exposure on Aperture priority 1/60th at f5.0; 800 ISP; 17 mm. Flash on.

Pic 2 here - auto settings which shoot on 1/200th at f2.8; 800 ISO; 17 mm. Flash on.

Obviously I was not trying to set a beautiful shot here - just the same one for comparison.

So it's not uncommon with this lens to get the example of picture #3 when shooting on A mode. I get I was wide open on the lens. I get the internal meter isn't always accurate. I get that manual is always better. Is this a need to drop the ISO? In A mode the shutter speed should be moving to compensate.

I am trying to figure out why this is happening consistently. I also see this often when I pop on my SB800 flash. I always thought the flash was having issues but now suspect the lens. Lens not in warranty as it was purchased from a friend (which invalidates the warranty). Last time I do that.

Appreciate your responses!

Cynthia
Hi all: br br I am learning so much from all of y... (show quote)


The main question is what metering type (spot, center-weighted, matrix, ...) were you using and was the object occupying the greatest space in the metering area lighter, darker or about the middle of the exposure range in the room. If the object you were metering from was covered a majority of the metered area and was darker than most of the room, your result will be over-exposure since the dark area requires more light to make it appear to be reflecting like an 18% gray card. If the dominant object in the metered area is lighter than the rest of the room, your final overall image will appear under-exposed since a lighter surface does not require as much light to reflect like an 18% gray card.

The 18% gray card is the typical default standard for good metering. It means that if you take a picture of an 18%gray card, it will be exactly reproduced in the image as you see it through your eyes in the room (barring any adjustments you have made to the camera).

Flash TTL metering takes on this same result. If the majority metering area is lighter than the rest of the scene, the camera will adjust your exposure in order to make it look like it whatever is the predominant area in the metering pattern reflects like an 18% gray card. Matrix metering can go a long way towards minimizing the over/under exposure because it takes a larger area into consideration when calculating the proper exposure.

In your first picture, the couch seems to be the main metering impact as it is what seems to be the object that is properly exposed. Since the rest of the room is lighter, it looks to be over-exposed. The second photo shows the white areas (plastic bag and laptop) to be properly exposed at the expense of the rest of the room.

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May 2, 2019 13:20:30   #
PGHphoto Loc: Pittsburgh, PA
 
DanielB wrote:
If your using a flash on ETTL your camera is metering all the light your flash is throwing out. Did you notice the reflected light off the iPad? Your bouncing that flash right back at you. It doesn't matter what your spot metering when that much light is being bounced back at you. Try bouncing your flash off the ceiling or point it up with a flash diffuser on. If it's a built in flash they have diffuser's for those also. Otherwise change the angle of the iPad so the light doesn't reflect back at you.
If your using a flash on ETTL your camera is meter... (show quote)


Actually, TTL - if reflected light from the laptop was the problem - would have resulted in UNDER exposure. Since as the light was reflected, the camera would have adjusted the exposure. It wouldn't result in the reflection being blown out. Thats the purpose of TTL - it adjusts somewhat on the fly. The issue is the metering point.

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May 2, 2019 13:37:46   #
PHRubin Loc: Nashville TN USA
 
I suspect that the internal meter is showing what would be needed IF THERE WERE NO FLASH!

I don't know how you have the flash set, but in 1 & 3 it is overpowering. It may be that since the flash is so close to the subject, it can't cut back output enough.

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May 2, 2019 14:27:53   #
Dale Evans - Amaetur Loc: Baton Rouge, La
 
Shooting digital is the same as shooting slide film. Always expose for the highlights or you will always be overexposed. If necessary zoom into the highlight, read the camera setting and then zoom back out and take the exposure using the reading you just made.

Dale

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