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"P" mode
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Apr 10, 2019 21:56:13   #
GENorkus Loc: Washington Twp, Michigan
 
canon Lee wrote:
How accurate would it be to use the "P" mode as a light meter? I never use "P" mode and use M or A for my shoots, but what if I need a light meter to measure, lets say a window, and then use flash for the room? How accurate is the light meter in a camera in that mode?


Unless I didn't get the joke, some people really got it wrong saying "P" mode stands for professional. It doesn't.

"P" mode stand for "Program" or "auto Program".

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Apr 11, 2019 01:18:19   #
BebuLamar
 
Lee!
Using P or any mode to use the camera as meter doesn't affect the accuracy but only convenient. Perhaps A or S (especially S) is more convenient as that is how a hand held meter would read. Some allow you to choose either like the Sekonic but Minolta the meter readout is similar to S mode.
I hope absolute accuracy (that is calibration accuracy and has nothing about correct exposure for your image) would be better than 1/3 stop but after sending my Nikon in for repaired and the camera came back with the meter 1/3 stop different than when I sent it in. So I think using the meter in evaluative for the test shot is what I would do in your case.

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Apr 11, 2019 03:54:23   #
Pablo8 Loc: Nottingham UK.
 
canon Lee wrote:
BTW here is my original question, not insinuating that I was ever going to use "P" mode for any of my shoots... here is the technical question" …"How accurate would it be to use the "P" mode as a light meter? I never use "P" mode and use M or A for my shoots, but what if I need a light meter to measure, lets say a window, and then use flash for the room? How accurate is the light meter in a camera in that mode?" And you never answered my question... Have you ever shot a window pull?
BTW here is my original question, not insinuating ... (show quote)


'Window Pull' is an alien term to me, sorry. I had run my Photography business for over fourty -five years. During that time, I took many house/ office/ shop/ hotel/ etc. interior photographs. If a shot included a window, that offered a decent view, I would take a light reading through the window, and that would be the basic exposure. (Remember, this is before digital had arrived) I would then add lighting to the interior to balance with the exterior brightness. The extra lighting was usually brolly flashes, either 'Studio Power', or battery units. The method was just the same whether I was shooting 35mm/ medium format/ or 5 x 4 The same basic approach was also carried out when Digital cameras were used. I found that setting the digital camera to M, was the safest starting point to establish the exterior brightness, and the reading was 'Set' into the camera. No further adjustment to that setting was necessary. More than one instance occurred when taking a series of photographs for a Builder on an Estate (Multiple houses). The 'Show Houses' were furnished , of course, but the view through a window could show half-built houses / site rubbish scaffolding etc. In that case, the curtains were closed, and just the room lighting was used. Todays equipment allows an instant check/playback on the camera. But in 'Film only' shooting, Polaroid shots (medium format and 5 x 4) were the only guide to ensure some sort of guide that the results were going to be as expected, before leaving the job. Confidence and experience counted somewhat, but Murphy's law (Sods Law) often lurked around the corner. I used a Gossen hand-held meter with the film cameras, but my Haselblads and Sinar 5 x 4 had TTL meters, which gave added assurance to readings on the bigger jobs. But the same principle remained, the exterior brightness was the exposure setting to use, and balance the interior with added light. In digital cameras I have taken two shots. One based on the interior lighting, and with the camera on a tripod, a second shot set for focus and lighting on the exterior brightness. Photoshop was used to merge the room, and the window view into one balanced picture. A number of ways to get the result with computer technology. I have closed my business, so only have myself to please, these days.

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Apr 11, 2019 13:05:23   #
canon Lee
 
Pablo8 wrote:
'Window Pull' is an alien term to me, sorry. I had run my Photography business for over fourty -five years. During that time, I took many house/ office/ shop/ hotel/ etc. interior photographs. If a shot included a window, that offered a decent view, I would take a light reading through the window, and that would be the basic exposure. (Remember, this is before digital had arrived) I would then add lighting to the interior to balance with the exterior brightness. The extra lighting was usually brolly flashes, either 'Studio Power', or battery units. The method was just the same whether I was shooting 35mm/ medium format/ or 5 x 4 The same basic approach was also carried out when Digital cameras were used. I found that setting the digital camera to M, was the safest starting point to establish the exterior brightness, and the reading was 'Set' into the camera. No further adjustment to that setting was necessary. More than one instance occurred when taking a series of photographs for a Builder on an Estate (Multiple houses). The 'Show Houses' were furnished , of course, but the view through a window could show half-built houses / site rubbish scaffolding etc. In that case, the curtains were closed, and just the room lighting was used. Todays equipment allows an instant check/playback on the camera. But in 'Film only' shooting, Polaroid shots (medium format and 5 x 4) were the only guide to ensure some sort of guide that the results were going to be as expected, before leaving the job. Confidence and experience counted somewhat, but Murphy's law (Sods Law) often lurked around the corner. I used a Gossen hand-held meter with the film cameras, but my Haselblads and Sinar 5 x 4 had TTL meters, which gave added assurance to readings on the bigger jobs. But the same principle remained, the exterior brightness was the exposure setting to use, and balance the interior with added light. In digital cameras I have taken two shots. One based on the interior lighting, and with the camera on a tripod, a second shot set for focus and lighting on the exterior brightness. Photoshop was used to merge the room, and the window view into one balanced picture. A number of ways to get the result with computer technology. I have closed my business, so only have myself to please, these days.
'Window Pull' is an alien term to me, sorry. I ha... (show quote)


Hi again Pablo. After reading your comments, I got the feeling that you really are not up to date with the real estate photography business. Your comments were not about using the cameras light meter but about your assertion that I was not knowledgeable about exposure. Todays techniques are much different than when you were shooting houses. Todays techniques use digital cameras and flash. Real estate photography is a business that requires a photographer that can get in and out fast, as not to keep the realtor waiting, so I am always looking to get faster and more accurate. Like you I take an exposure shot for the window and one of the interior. Blending the exposures in HDR does not always work Pablo. As a result we real estate photographers have to mask out the window and adjust each layer to balance out the light. Some use a technique called "darken" mode and others like myself cut out the blown out window to reveal the good exposure beneath. Both take time. I take around 50 different angle images. So you see, Pablo I don't have time as you suggested to take 10 min per shot to find the right settings, I really have to get all shots in an hour or less. Editing is where I spend more time. I am sure you thought I was a novice and using "P" mode. I started photography many yrs ago doing studio product shooting/head shots, and like you I used very expensive equipment as well as lighting, backdrops, etc. But shooting real estate is different, for on thing unlike studio work there is the difference in light which cant be adjusted, such as "incident as well as reflective. So these two light sources require different settings. In a studio it is easy with just being able to adjust lighting for reflective light. I am 82 and still working in the business. I would say Pablo I acquired a lot of experience and feel I do have a working knowledge of camera settings and exposure.

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Apr 11, 2019 14:04:57   #
photoman022 Loc: Manchester CT USA
 
If I were in your situation I would use "P" as a starting point. Use it to get an initial setting for the window and then go into manual mode and change the settings as needed. I would change it with the shutter speed, but being sure not to exceed the camera's sync speed. Your aperture setting will affect the amount of flash that enters the camera. After exposing for the window, then expose for your flash. You can either change the f/stop or (preferably) the output power of the flash.

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Apr 12, 2019 09:45:53   #
Pablo8 Loc: Nottingham UK.
 
photoman022 wrote:
If I were in your situation I would use "P" as a starting point. Use it to get an initial setting for the window and then go into manual mode and change the settings as needed. I would change it with the shutter speed, but being sure not to exceed the camera's sync speed. Your aperture setting will affect the amount of flash that enters the camera. After exposing for the window, then expose for your flash. You can either change the f/stop or (preferably) the output power of the flash.
If I were in your situation I would use "P&qu... (show quote)


Too many steps to get a balanced result... Set M on the camera. Fill the VF with the window, lock in the M setting, using the ISO to ensure the shutter speed is at or slower than Flash synch speed. Compose the room shot, use bounced TTL flash to illuminate the room, to balance with the external brightness. Why use P setting, and then go to M.?? Start off with M and keep it there.

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Apr 14, 2019 06:05:59   #
Pablo8 Loc: Nottingham UK.
 
canon Lee wrote:
Hi again Pablo. After reading your comments, I got the feeling that you really are not up to date with the real estate photography business. Your comments were not about using the cameras light meter but about your assertion that I was not knowledgeable about exposure. Todays techniques are much different than when you were shooting houses. Todays techniques use digital cameras and flash. Real estate photography is a business that requires a photographer that can get in and out fast, as not to keep the realtor waiting, so I am always looking to get faster and more accurate. Like you I take an exposure shot for the window and one of the interior. Blending the exposures in HDR does not always work Pablo. As a result we real estate photographers have to mask out the window and adjust each layer to balance out the light. Some use a technique called "darken" mode and others like myself cut out the blown out window to reveal the good exposure beneath. Both take time. I take around 50 different angle images. So you see, Pablo I don't have time as you suggested to take 10 min per shot to find the right settings, I really have to get all shots in an hour or less. Editing is where I spend more time. I am sure you thought I was a novice and using "P" mode. I started photography many yrs ago doing studio product shooting/head shots, and like you I used very expensive equipment as well as lighting, backdrops, etc. But shooting real estate is different, for on thing unlike studio work there is the difference in light which cant be adjusted, such as "incident as well as reflective. So these two light sources require different settings. In a studio it is easy with just being able to adjust lighting for reflective light. I am 82 and still working in the business. I would say Pablo I acquired a lot of experience and feel I do have a working knowledge of camera settings and exposure.
Hi again Pablo. After reading your comments, I go... (show quote)


Quote "I don't have time as you suggested to take 10 min per shot to find the right settings, "Quote.

***********************************************************

I thought I had suggested the 10 minutes were spent at the start of a session/ day/ week. Not for each shot.

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Apr 15, 2019 09:44:24   #
AKARC
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:
On these kinds of forums, there is a great deal of anonymity - most folks don't even use their actual name. All I know about anyone is a "handle" or user name and perhaps a vague idea of there level of knowledge of photography. Some people write great technical information but rarely post a photograph. Some, frankly, don't know what the are writing (talking) about and the majority, thankfully, are well-meaning and helpful. The people that really know what the are doing and saying and are willing to share their expertise, become known quantities- they earn respect.

When someone poses a question, my policy is to furnish an answer to the best of my knowledge. I have never taken anyone to task for what I perceive as there lack of expertise or knowledge in any given area of photography. If I have no answer or if feel that the question is rhetorical, I just skip it.

Sometimes I prefer to assume that many folks know what they are doing, have a methodology for a particular scenario but just want to verify their method or get other photographers' opinions on the situation- perhaps there is a shortcut or more up-to-date approach. I have been at this job, professionally, for over 50 years and I still learn new things all the time.

Of course, TESTING has to be done on any method- but testing based on what? Why not offer a basic tip or instruction and then suggest testing it out, that is if you have a real solution.

I usually not' "call out" anyone on your sort of response but what you wrote is uncalled for and downright rude!
On these kinds of forums, there is a great deal of... (show quote)


THIS! And this "To teach is an honor, to learn is a blessing..."

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