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Histogram with negative exposure compensation with a dark scene
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Apr 13, 2019 00:36:26   #
Strodav Loc: Houston, Tx
 
You haven't given us enough to really help you. Please let us know what type of camera you have. What post processing software you are using and post a couple of pictures with your exposure settings especially if you were using a filter like a polarizer. Reflections from sun on water can fool your camera's exposure meter. Without that, we are flying blind. Can you calibrate the monitor on your computer or at least select different presets like movie, game, ...?

No matter what, I can still recommend shooting both raw and jpg. As your PP skills improve, you will be able to do some pretty amazing things to the raw files you won't be able to do with the jpgs.

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Apr 13, 2019 04:56:52   #
Gene51 Loc: Yonkers, NY, now in LSD (LowerSlowerDelaware)
 
Jacqui Burke wrote:
I am looking at my photographs that I took last month during my trip to Baja. There are a lot of photos of dark whales in dark water. I knew that I would need to dial in some negative exposure compensation as the camera would tend to lighten the scene. I did not know how to read the histogram for this type of situation and even thinking about it at home I am confused. I did not travel with a computer as we were encouraged to travel light. Also, my husband (not a photographer) was with me and I didn't want to get sucked into looking at photos on my computer during down time rather than being with him.

I am now finding that overall -.3 performed the best for most of these photos, but the histograms are hard to read. When no exposure compensation was used, the histogram looks "normal" with no clipped highlights or shadows but those photos are clearly overexposed. When negative compensation was used, the histogram is shifted to the left with no highlights touching the right side. Since I find it hard to evaluate photos by looking at the LCD screen, particularly "in the heat of the moment" and in the sun, are there some guidelines anybody can give for knowing the correct exposure factor in such a case and in reading the corresponding histogram?

Thanks in advance for your help!
I am looking at my photographs that I took last mo... (show quote)


Jacqui, your goal in any digital photograph is to avoid overexposing important highlights. Luckily most modern digital cameras have a spot meter mode, so you can narrow the view that the camera's metering system sees when reading the light in a scene. If you use the approach to meter the important highlights (where you want to keep detail) and ADD 1 to 2 stops of exposure to that reading, you will generally avoid exposure errors. It's best to test for exactly how much exposure you can add to a highlight reading. On my D810 I can do 1-2/3 stop. Shooting raw is a good way to take advantage of your camera's dynamic range.

If a raw image "looks" overexposed, but no highlights are blown, then you have a correct exposure. If you look at your images with and with compensation, you'll find that the ones where you dialed in negative compensation will "look" better, but will most likely be noisier than the ones where you used no compensation and just adjusted the exposure level in post processing.

It is simple matter to make such adjustments in raw converters. In fact it is much easier than trying to do this on a compressed jpeg.

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Apr 13, 2019 07:04:32   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
What Gene suggests or as an option consider investing a couple hundred dollars in a handheld meter and learn how it can help your photography. Joe Brady/Sekonic have some excellent YouTube videos on metering. They can help you understand the issues involved even if you decide not to get a handheld meter. Histograms in camera are also based on the JPEG and are not always accurate but rather a graph of the distribution of tones in an image. It seems you understand that the camera meter will take everything toward medium gray.

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Apr 13, 2019 08:13:37   #
mizzee Loc: Boston,Ma
 
👍👍👍👍 mirrorless = wysiwyg

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Apr 13, 2019 08:43:21   #
rmalarz Loc: Tempe, Arizona
 
Jacqui, it would be incredibly helpful if you were to let us know if you were capturing you initial images in RAW or jpg and why you chose that format.
--Bob
Jacqui Burke wrote:
I am looking at my photographs that I took last month during my trip to Baja. There are a lot of photos of dark whales in dark water. I knew that I would need to dial in some negative exposure compensation as the camera would tend to lighten the scene. I did not know how to read the histogram for this type of situation and even thinking about it at home I am confused. I did not travel with a computer as we were encouraged to travel light. Also, my husband (not a photographer) was with me and I didn't want to get sucked into looking at photos on my computer during down time rather than being with him.

I am now finding that overall -.3 performed the best for most of these photos, but the histograms are hard to read. When no exposure compensation was used, the histogram looks "normal" with no clipped highlights or shadows but those photos are clearly overexposed. When negative compensation was used, the histogram is shifted to the left with no highlights touching the right side. Since I find it hard to evaluate photos by looking at the LCD screen, particularly "in the heat of the moment" and in the sun, are there some guidelines anybody can give for knowing the correct exposure factor in such a case and in reading the corresponding histogram?

Thanks in advance for your help!
I am looking at my photographs that I took last mo... (show quote)

Reply
Apr 13, 2019 08:51:16   #
sclay1234 Loc: Ocean county nj
 
I think she is trying to ask how to read the histogram as in perspective to the picture. WHAT is the histogram telling you about the picture. I know that is what I want to know. I'm not to good with histograms. I have understood it to be a way to see the picture in digital form so if you are in a position that you cant see the picture clear (bright sun) you can quickly look at the histogram to judge the photo.

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Apr 13, 2019 08:57:26   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
Believe she was shooting JPEG Bob...

rmalarz wrote:
Jacqui, it would be incredibly helpful if you were to let us know if you were capturing you initial images in RAW or jpg and why you chose that format.
--Bob

Reply
 
 
Apr 13, 2019 09:18:20   #
Jacqui Burke Loc: Perkiomenville, PA
 
Thanks for the replies. I have uploaded a few photos that I hope illustrate what I am trying to describe. These photos of the fluke of a blue whale were taken using no exposure compensation and they appear lighter than what I saw with my eyes when I was there.

The entire point of this discussion was to try to get it right in the camera. Although the tones of the subject were dark, the sun was shining brightly. I was wearing sunglasses and it was difficult to see the LCD screen of the camera. I checked the histogram but it looked normal because the camera had adjusted the exposure due to all the dark tones in the scene.

Changing to mirrorless is not an option at this time as I am fully invested in DSLR equipment now.

I shoot with a D7100 and a D7200, mostly wildlife. I shoot in jpeg. I understand the benefits of raw but chose not to use it because of the time spent post processing. I work more than full time as a veterinarian and it is already extremely time consuming to deal with the photos in jpeg format. I always make a photo book using Blurb from each trip. To a great extent I enjoy making the books as it brings out my creativity in selecting and laying out the photos, but each book takes a couple hundred hours to put together. All our friends, family, and coworkers love the books, putting ever more pressure to keep them top notch. Adding one more step would be the straw that broke the camel's back!


(Download)


(Download)


(Download)

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Apr 13, 2019 09:25:31   #
Notorious T.O.D. Loc: Harrisburg, North Carolina
 
It sounds to me like you are greatly overestimating the time required to make basic adjustments to an image or even a large group of images. I can recommend Laura Shoe’s video training as a simple and easy way to learn Lightroom...

Jacqui Burke wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I have uploaded a few photos that I hope illustrate what I am trying to describe. These photos of the fluke of a blue whale were taken using no exposure compensation and they appear lighter than what I saw with my eyes when I was there.

The entire point of this discussion was to try to get it right in the camera. Although the tones of the subject were dark, the sun was shining brightly. I was wearing sunglasses and it was difficult to see the LCD screen of the camera. I checked the histogram but it looked normal because the camera had adjusted the exposure due to all the dark tones in the scene.

Changing to mirrorless is not an option at this time as I am fully invested in DSLR equipment now.

I shoot with a D7100 and a D7200, mostly wildlife. I shoot in jpeg. I understand the benefits of raw but chose not to use it because of the time spent post processing. I work more than full time as a veterinarian and it is already extremely time consuming to deal with the photos in jpeg format. I always make a photo book using Blurb from each trip. To a great extent I enjoy making the books as it brings out my creativity in selecting and laying out the photos, but each book takes a couple hundred hours to put together. All our friends, family, and coworkers love the books, putting ever more pressure to keep them top notch. Adding one more step would be the straw that broke the camel's back!
Thanks for the replies. I have uploaded a few phot... (show quote)

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Apr 13, 2019 09:27:58   #
Jacqui Burke Loc: Perkiomenville, PA
 
sclay1234 wrote:
I think she is trying to ask how to read the histogram as in perspective to the picture. WHAT is the histogram telling you about the picture. I know that is what I want to know. I'm not to good with histograms. I have understood it to be a way to see the picture in digital form so if you are in a position that you cant see the picture clear (bright sun) you can quickly look at the histogram to judge the photo.


That is exactly the issue. The tones of the scene were dark but the sun was shining brightly and I was wearing sunglasses. Normally I use the histogram but we all know the camera will lighten dark toned scenes and darken light toned scenes. So, how do you interpret the histogram in these cases?

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Apr 13, 2019 09:30:09   #
Jacqui Burke Loc: Perkiomenville, PA
 
The pictures are uploading. I live way in the country with no cable Internet. DSL is a slow way to go! Usually I upload things from work where there is excellent Wifi.

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Apr 13, 2019 09:34:18   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Jacqui Burke wrote:
The pictures are uploading. I live way in the country with no cable Internet. DSL is a slow way to go! Usually I upload things from work where there is excellent Wifi.


We don't need "large" files as examples. This posts gives some ideas on how to lower the resolution for digital images that will upload / download lickity split : https://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-512745-1.html

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Apr 13, 2019 09:36:07   #
via the lens Loc: Northern California, near Yosemite NP
 
Jacqui Burke wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I have uploaded a few photos that I hope illustrate what I am trying to describe. These photos of the fluke of a blue whale were taken using no exposure compensation and they appear lighter than what I saw with my eyes when I was there.

The entire point of this discussion was to try to get it right in the camera. Although the tones of the subject were dark, the sun was shining brightly. I was wearing sunglasses and it was difficult to see the LCD screen of the camera. I checked the histogram but it looked normal because the camera had adjusted the exposure due to all the dark tones in the scene.

Changing to mirrorless is not an option at this time as I am fully invested in DSLR equipment now.

I shoot with a D7100 and a D7200, mostly wildlife. I shoot in jpeg. I understand the benefits of raw but chose not to use it because of the time spent post processing. I work more than full time as a veterinarian and it is already extremely time consuming to deal with the photos in jpeg format. I always make a photo book using Blurb from each trip. To a great extent I enjoy making the books as it brings out my creativity in selecting and laying out the photos, but each book takes a couple hundred hours to put together. All our friends, family, and coworkers love the books, putting ever more pressure to keep them top notch. Adding one more step would be the straw that broke the camel's back!
Thanks for the replies. I have uploaded a few phot... (show quote)


Jacqui,

A histogram is a graph that shows you the tone range in your image, from highlights to darks, and also if an image is blown out on the highlight end or blacked out (or blocked) on the shadow end. Images taken with darker exposures generally have more noise in them, but, depending on the scene, this can be easily compensated for by decreasing shadows in software applications. Images that are blown out, the “foot” of the tone graph goes beyond the range shown in the camera, cannot be brought back as no data was captured. Having said that, it is important to know the range of your specific camera as, in general, many cameras actually have a greater range than shown on the histogram. Additionally, if one is shooting in RAW the histogram does not tell the whole story as it is based on the jpeg preview.

If shooting in RAW it is best to expose a bit to the right on the histogram, which allows for the greatest degree of information capture. However, JPEG images have a greater chance of being blown out in highlights because a JPEG capture does not capture as much data as a RAW capture so it’s best to set the exposure toward the highlight end but not to the edge as one might do with a RAW capture.

In general, all a histogram does is tell you if you have a shot within an acceptable tone range. Oftentimes, software processing is needed to create an acceptable shot, even with a JPEG image. For best results, digital capture requires that you expose on the highlights and let the rest of the image “fall where it may” and then you process for the shadows. This is the exact opposite of what film photographers used to do. You simply cannot get it all absolutely correct except in certain perfect exposure situations, cameras are simply not designed for that. You have to make a choice as you shoot as to what is important for you. Focus and shoot for the subject and figure the rest out later on. This requires a lot of shooting to become experienced enough to know what you can do in the field and what you can do later on in post.

Trust the histogram to let you know that you are shooting within a range where both the darks and the lights are being captured.

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Apr 13, 2019 09:41:55   #
Jacqui Burke Loc: Perkiomenville, PA
 
Notorious T.O.D. wrote:
What Gene suggests or as an option consider investing a couple hundred dollars in a handheld meter and learn how it can help your photography. Joe Brady/Sekonic have some excellent YouTube videos on metering. They can help you understand the issues involved even if you decide not to get a handheld meter. Histograms in camera are also based on the JPEG and are not always accurate but rather a graph of the distribution of tones in an image. It seems you understand that the camera meter will take everything toward medium gray.
What Gene suggests or as an option consider invest... (show quote)


I’m not sure how a light meter would have helped in this situation. It was very bright and sunny and I was wearing sunglasses. I was shooting the whales at a focal length of 300-600mm. The issue is the dark whales against the dark water. I would not be able to hand meter that from the top of a boat.

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Apr 13, 2019 09:45:36   #
Jacqui Burke Loc: Perkiomenville, PA
 
Thank you. That was a well explained answer and I feel I am slowly coming to a point where I am satisfied with my understanding of this.

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