Electrical receptacle question (Page 3): By shortcut by the builder, I mean the practice of using a GFCI in on area of the house to protect a completely different floor. Legal by the...

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Unclehoss wrote:

The requirement is to have the FIRST outlet in the series that is required to be ground fault protected to be the GFCI outlet, all other outlets down current are then GFI protected. Therefore, only one outlet per room with water outlets needs to be GFCI protected. It's not a short cut by the builder.

By shortcut by the builder, I mean the practice of using a GFCI in on area of the house to protect a completely different floor. Legal by the code, but it can result in exactly the issue mentioned here. A ground fault outlet costs $12-15, while the cheap version of a duplex outlet costs about $.59 in bulk (I never use that grade). Frankly, with the cost of copper romex, it probably doesn’t make economic sense any more. Case in point. I own a 3 floor townhouse with a garage and two decks which I rent out. My tenant called to say that the garage outlet wasn’t working and neither were the ones on the 1st and second floor decks. Turns out ther was a single GFCI on the 1st floor deck that had gotten damp enough to trip when the HOA washed the unit. Now it must have required close to a hundred feet of 14-2 Romex to run the other outlets to the GFCI instead of the closest circuit, but apparently cheaper than the 2-3 extra GFCI outlets 10 years ago when the unit was built.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

dannac wrote:

My error people.

I assumed the receptacle was controlled by the same breaker that controlled the lights for that room.
Must have been the paint fumes

Breaker 29 was off ... it controls receptacles in two separate bathrooms.
Breaker 28 controls two exterior receptacles.

Not sure what made the breaker trip though.

Thanks all.

It doesn’t take much leakage to trip a GFCI breaker. The GFCI is literally looking at the difference in current flow between the “hot” and the neutral wire. If there is a sufficient discrepancy between the current going in and the current going out (or vice versa since it is AC), the assumption is that there is another path to ground (perhaps you!), and the breaker trips. A little bit of moisture or a particular appliance will do it.

Soul Dr. Loc: Beautiful Shenandoah Valley

dannac wrote:

My error people.

I assumed the receptacle was controlled by the same breaker that controlled the lights for that room.
Must have been the paint fumes

Breaker 29 was off ... it controls receptacles in two separate bathrooms.
Breaker 28 controls two exterior receptacles.

Not sure what made the breaker trip though.

Thanks all.

Breakers can go bad and not handle the amps it is rated for. It if keeps happening check to see if something you are using is shorting out or is overloading the breaker. If not, replace the breaker.

TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC

Soul Dr. wrote:

Breakers can go bad and not handle the amps it is rated for. It if keeps happening check to see if something you are using is shorting out or is overloading the breaker. If not, replace the breaker.

Check everything else first - GFCI breakers aren’t inexpensive.

D-Train Loc: Bend, Oregon

Longshadow wrote:

My last house had the bath outlet protected by a GFI in the garage (next to the power panel).

I rent a room from a friend who owns a manufactured home (mobile home) and the outlets in my bedroom stopped working one day and we couldn't figure it out. We called several electricians and they all quoted us a week before they could come out. One electrician helped me figure it out over the phone. It turns out my bedroom wall is shared by a bathroom wall, and while the 2 rooms should be on different circuits they weren't. The bathroom had a GFI outlet that had tripped. Pushed the button and voila, the outlets in my bedroom started working.

Also, when I owned a house I had a freezer in my garage that I thought went dead. It turns out there was a GFI electrical outlet on the opposite wall in the garage that was tripped. You can buy an outlet tester for just a few dollars that will tell you if the outlet has 120 VAC going to it or not. If it has no voltage check for a GFI next. And don't count on the GFI being in the same room as the dead outlet.

dannac Loc: 60 miles SW of New Orleans

LXK0930 wrote:

If it is a GFI receptical, try resetting it.

Do not think it is GFI ... looks like regular old receptacle.

dannac Loc: 60 miles SW of New Orleans

TriX wrote:

It doesn’t take much leakage to trip a GFCI breaker. The GFCI is literally looking at the difference in current flow between the “hot” and the neutral wire. If there is a sufficient discrepancy between the current going in and the current going out (or vice versa since it is AC), the assumption is that there is another path to ground (perhaps you!), and the breaker trips. A little bit of moisture or a particular appliance will do it.

Thanks.

dannac Loc: 60 miles SW of New Orleans

Soul Dr. wrote:

Breakers can go bad and not handle the amps it is rated for. It if keeps happening check to see if something you are using is shorting out or is overloading the breaker. If not, replace the breaker.

This is the 1st time I recall it happening to an interior receptacle.

Though the one on back porch did trip a couple of times.
It is not gfi receptacle either, but it does have weather cover. ( #28 in image above )

dannac Loc: 60 miles SW of New Orleans

Unclehoss wrote:

So often times, one circuit will serve more than one room

Thanks

Example : I have one breaker that controls the kitchen light, dining light, and some far away receptacle in the living room.

I do not understand why they would do that.

JerryOSF Loc: Bristol, VA

There is a high resistance (i.e. a bad connection) in the line somewhere. A meter will not detect that. Any time more than a small amount of current is drawn the voltage drop happens across the poor connection. A meter draws only a very small amount of current therefore the voltage appears ok. The bad connection can overheat and cause a fire if you leave a load on the circuit.

Flash Falasca Loc: Beverly Hills, Florida

I agree, Sounds like a bad ( worn out receptacle) the contacts sometimes lose tension and the plug doesn't make good contact, a tester don't draw enough current to cause a problem.

Unclehoss

dannac wrote:

Thanks

Example : I have one breaker that controls the kitchen light, dining light, and some far away receptacle in the living room.

I do not understand why they would do that.

In this case, if the living room power needed service or went out for another reason, you could operate a lamp or work light from the circuit that controls the kitchen light, dining light and that far away receptacle in the living room to be able to see to do the work.

Longshadow Loc: Audubon, PA, United States

dannac wrote:

Thanks

Example : I have one breaker that controls the kitchen light, dining light, and some far away receptacle in the living room.

I do not understand why they would do that.

They try to split possible loads up so one circuit (or two) is not running everything. Chances are better to distribute loading if they can suppose that some rooms are not used at the same time. Something like Bedroom1 & Dining room; Bedroom 2 & Family room. Many times they will also put adjacent wall receptacles in two rooms on the same line to save wire. It also could depend on what lights & receptacles are on the way to the destination circuits also.

dannac Loc: 60 miles SW of New Orleans

JerryOSF wrote:

There is a high resistance (i.e. a bad connection) in the line somewhere. The bad connection can overheat and cause a fire if you leave a load on the circuit.

Thanks

How do I find the bad connection ?

... or should I just replace all those receptacles that are connected to those two special breakers ?

If yes, should I replace with dedicated GFI receptacle or does the breaker take care of it ?

dannac Loc: 60 miles SW of New Orleans

Unclehoss wrote:

In this case, if the living room power needed service or went out for another reason, you could operate a lamp or work light from the circuit that controls the kitchen light, dining light and that far away receptacle in the living room to be able to see to do the work.

Thanks, but my ole brain still doesn't get it.

You would still have to run an extension for the light ... to reach the room you're working in.

My logic is this breaker controls this room, this breaker controls this room, etc...

I'm not an electrician