ted45 Loc: Delaware

In all of the discussions on UHH pertaining to gun control there are two sides, one side against more control and one for more control or outright banning. In the past few days PETA has jumped into the discussion with a demand for a total ban on hunting.

We already have more gun control laws and regulations than any one person can keep track of and yet people keep getting killed with guns. The shining example used is Chicago with an extremely strict gun control program and over 500 gun deaths in 2012. A standard response to control advocates is that you cannot keep guns out of the hands of criminals. We have laws against murder and yet we cannot get some people to obey those laws. I tend to believe that if people understood the whole “Thou shalt not kill” thing, gun control would be a moot point.

However let’s deal with reality: technology is always ten steps ahead of the law. You now, today, have the ability to buy a 3d printer and design, print and fire any weapon of your own design; all completely legal under existing law.

Doesn’t it make more sense to deal with the reasons people go bad? How about keeping the criminals in jail until we find a way to get them straight? Wasn’t the guy that killed the fire fighters the other week already a convicted murderer? Every mass murderer in the past two decades was on or withdrawing from some sort of doctor prescribed anti-depressant. Drugs, some of which have been withdrawn from sale, known to cause violent side effects including paranoia and suicide all common traits found in these killers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLlJshR6nvg

Lmarc Loc: Ojojona, Honduras

Yeah, good luck convincing 'em with logic and facts! :roll:

Danilo Loc: Las Vegas

You are putting forth some great concepts here, Ted. The prime "drivers" of the gun ban crowd march swiftly past the core cause of our mental illness problem, our homicide problem, our basic criminal problem, because they don't really want to Solve the problem. They want to ban guns. A similar situation exists in the medical world: "treating" cancer is far more rewarding than "curing" cancer.
To suggest a person can use a 3D printer to manufacture a firearm is dangerously incorrect. Before ANYONE can legally manufacture a firearm, or the "essential" components of a firearm, and license must be obtained from BATF...no exceptions. The lower receiver of the AR-15 rifle shown in the video is absolutely illegal to manufacture without said license. Most other components CAN legally be manufactured.
Great post Ted! I hope a lot of people consider the ideas your bringing up here.

ted45 Loc: Delaware

I am not a lawyer so I was just going by what the reporter in the first video said about it being legal. The point is that this makes it even easier for those that don't worry about the law to do what they do. The rest of us that actually try to stay legal end up sitting on our hands.

ole sarg Loc: south florida

Danilo:

Great observation. Lets break the problem down to two distinct parts: 1) mental illness, 2) poverty/drugs

Mental illness once diagnosed can be treated but it is very expensive and maybe OBamacare can address this part of the problem. We will have to see about that.

Poverty/drugs is harder. 500 killed in inner city Chicago. Many of the killings are over control of drug traffic. Think it is about time to legalize drugs and get crime out of the picture.

Drug related homicides from 1990 to 1998 averaged about 20,000 per year and it probably has not changed much in the first decade of the 21st cent. http://www.policyalmanac.org/crime/archive/drug_related_crime.shtml

If memory serves there were about 15K gun killings last year, I would bet most were drug related.

I think we should say we have won the war on drugs and just legalize them. Let a user go to the local pharmacy and buy his fix at a reasonable price, put a tax on the sale and dedicate that tax money to rehab programs.

lets take the money saved on the war on drugs and put it into early education along with breakfast and lunch programs and the rest into education in the inner city. In short, lets teach our youth how to fish!

Danilo Loc: Las Vegas

I find myself liking some of your ideas, old sarg, but lately it seems like they are diagnosing every sort of misbehavior as a new mental illness with a new set of initials. Soon it will be a rare individual who does not have a "legitimate mental condition", I hope I can be one of them.
Our war on drugs has done more to promote drug proliferation than any efforts by the drug dealers themselves. But you're right: we could claim victory by simply legalizing the drugs. There is some reason this is still being held as an impossibility. I don't know the reason, but it's pretty powerful, whatever it is.
Ron Paul tried to campaign for drug legalization and it certainly did nothing for his credibility. Kind of sad...maybe?

LARRYR. Loc: Saint Martinville, La.

Very good exchange, take away a right in which
we do have( right to bear arms)and give them the
the rights that they want ( the rights to legalize
drugs) then when those that has the right to do
drugs starts using our once ( now taken away) right
to bear arms, I wonder what will happen next.
From what I see, the drug dealers doesn't seem to
have any problems getting guns or drugs. Why not
legalize them both, that way those that want to shot
drugs and shot drugs and those of us that wants
to shot our guns can shot guns.

TimS Loc: GA

Huh??

rayford2 Loc: New Bethlehem, PA

Keeping criminals in jail has no effect on their behavior issues as long as they have all the amenities of home there. Once released they have nothing to lose by going back to prison. Thank you, ACLU

ted45 Loc: Delaware

Good thoughts but there are a few problems with your logic:

1. As far as the information that is available tells us every one of these mass murderers was under some sort of mental health treatment program. The most common thread between them is the use of doctor prescribed medications for mental issues.

2. The illegal drugs that are being fought over were all legal at one time. The Coca in Coca Cola was cocaine. They are all illegal substances because of their effect on the users and therefore society. Many States are legalizing marijuana and yet the killings of marijuana distribution continue and have even accelerated. However, I agree with you that the current "War" on drugs at least needs a new general and a new plan.

3. Dedicate the tax collected on the legal sale of drugs to rehab centers. Name one program were a tax was collected to resolve the problem and then the tax money was actually used for that purpose. We have something close to 75cents a gallon tax on gas in Pa that is supposed to be used for road repair. According to the long haul truckers we have some of the worst roads. Now, our Governor is proposing a new tax on gasoline stations to be dedicated to road repair. Your suggestion is fine if we can get honest Politian’s. How do you think that will work?


I remember meeting John F. Kennedy during his campaign. He was vilified at the time because he was a Catholic and electing him would put the Vatican in charge of the U.S. Over the last several years his image has been torn down due to his interest in women. My point is that Kennedy brought hope to people at all levels of society. He never spoke about one class bringing down another. He spoke about people and the possibility of a greater Nation and a better life. Today the one thing I see most people lacking is hope. Another common thread in these killers.

LARRYR. Loc: Saint Martinville, La.

Would that be the American's Convict Liberty Union, I
heard there's this other union called the ACLU, have
no idea what they do. :wink:

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

Because something is made illegal by our laws doesn't make it go away. A lot of times it makes it more profitable. Prohibition comes to mind as well as the so called war on drugs. :thumbup:

geophoto

several tests done on 3d guns failed miserably. The best fired 8 rounds before coming apart.

Uncle Chuck

When you go to war, whether against drugs, guns, alcohol or another nation, with no idea as how to fight it you end up with what we have now in the U. S.: total chaos as far as the war is concerned.

Things change: whereas we used to go to war to "save" or "liberate" somebody (a nation) or something (democracy, freedom) we now go to war because somebody has something that we want or want to control; (THERE'S MONEY TO BE MADE!) AND, we continue to send our sons and daughters into harms way only to come back maimed, mentally disabled, or dead and WE call it being "Patriotic!"

Things change: the "bad guy's" no longer wear black (or whatever uniform) so you can't tell good from bad. "Bomb 'em back to the Stone Age!" you say. And that accomplishes what?' a warm fuzzy feeling as the bombs go off? (Ooooh, you saw THAT one!?) as we make even MORE enemies.

WE need to learn how to fight wars again.

pounder35 Loc: "Southeast of Disorder"

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning." We know how to fight and win. It's just hard when your hands are tied. :thumbup: