Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

Any chance of getting back to normality and basic civilness by putting the gun debate to bed?

You claim freedoms in the US - probably more than the UK - yet some are denying others the right of free speech.

In what could have been interesting debates on the pro's and cons of gun control laws you have missed a valuable opportunity to put your views in a sensible way.

Instead, you have dug in to entrenched positions on high ground, banging your soap box, and are shooting at anything that moves - including the moderators.

One of you told me 'If you're not for us then you are against' - which is not an attitude guaranteed to gain support and therefore in your mind puts anyone not 100% in agreement with your views as the enemy.

Others said 'you don't understand' and I fully concur with this statement - however, when civil questions were asked in order to try to understand your view, then they was greeted with unwarranted pages of vitriol, abuse and lots about the First amendment.

Questions trying to understand why an arsenal of heavy firepower is apparently needed were met the same way with just a very few - more reasonable people - giving a bit of explanation about some of the types of guns mentioned.

Nowhere in the debate did I see anything about scrapping the First amendment - nor a suggestion of taking away your rights to own firearms!

The debate even deteriorated into prejudices such as everyone hates us and more specifically 'the Brits hate the Americans' claim, even foreigners trying to tell them what to do - goodness only knows where these ideas came from but there was nothing in the posts to warrant it but you should be able to see why I used the word 'paranoia'.

I am still impartial and would like to understand this issue but I fear that it will not come from yourselves and if the pro-gun people are not prepared to sensibly put their side of the argument - then why should others go to the bother of trying to understand?

Because many people have given up on this subject you will no doubt think you have won the debate however you have simply added to the growing tide of opinion against you.

I don't doubt that normally you are good citizens who have a common enjoyment of photography. Mention guns however and it is a case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde where a totally different personality comes out.

The impression I have been left with is that some of you are acting like the worst characters in the films where you have an arsenal in the basement and whenever possible, load up the pickup and go out to blast anything that dares move. This impression has come from YOUR answers, not from preconceived ideas and I hadn't - until now - taken the films seriously. That is not encouraging and only adds to the arguments
against you.

So in future let us restrict subjects of 'guns' to the photographic type unless you are willing to enter into a sensible debate.

Robert Graybeal Loc: Myrtle Beach

there is no agrument.
the second amendment gives the citizens the right to have guns to protect themselves from government tyrany. period.

sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL

What would a sensible debat be?

Americans enjoy the absolute most freedoms of any country in the world. Why ?

We earned them, we fought for them, we cherish them and we will always have them.

Those that have lost the freedoms we enjoy will never again understand them or enjoy them.

Other countries that do not have our freedoms should refrain from offering opinions about them. PERIOD

We, as a people and a nation have fought to preserve the freedoms of other countries and our own from our beginnings. Then they throw their freedoms aways in search of the 'good feelings' they think will help their lives.

Look at the countries where the people have not had or gave up the right to protest with arms. Then look at America.

Of course there are some bad times, but those bad times are caused by the few bad apples that appear in the basket. Compare that to China, North Korea, Afganistan, Iran, Iraq and other countries where the people are starving, kept oppressed by their government, while the leaders get fat and dress nice and travel around the world in absolute luxury.

Folks, we're not perfect, never were but I would not trade my freedoms for anything and would protect them to my death if and when needed.

I'm just saddened by the leaders of this country forgetting that we were the most powerful, the most free and the most looked up to nation in the world.

And you know what is ruining that? The peace loving, live together and love and look the other way ass-holes we elect who self-serve themselves instead of the people that elect them, and those who are the takers and won't work, mothers of 5 without husbands, drug users and professional welfare families and obese pavement pounders on their way to another fast food store beforeor after visiting the welfare office for more of my money.

Gee, and all that on my 2nd cup of coffee.

Sarge69

Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

I didn't understand this the first time it was mentioned - a new civil war brewing?

You are still going over the same rhetoric without any attempt to educate others as to your opinion. So please read my missive carefully and properly and then either explain your views in a sensible way - without a lot of rhetoric and meaningless mouthing - or shut up.

The average person would be rightfully wary of anyone who gets heated easily and is belligerent. But consider that type of person with access to lethal weapons and you have a scenario that is downright scary!

Of course one may consider that arming a person encourages them to be belligerent because they feel powerful and invincible.

Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

Please leave the soap box for the other forums!
The average person would be rightfully wary of anyone who gets heated easily and is belligerent. But consider that type of person with access to lethal weapons and you have a scenario that is downright scary! :cry:

sarge69 Loc: Ft Myers, FL

Since this is America, The U.S.A. we have more rights than YOU in the UK to talk about our 2nd amendment rights. You don't have any so don't try to lecture us about your lack of self-defense rights.

Thank you

Sarge69

phcaan Loc: Willow Springs, MO

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

jadeast Loc: Virginia

I would like to add that if you don't play in the game don't try to make the rules for those of us who do!

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Hey Doc ..... yea,yea,yea

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Hey Doc ..... I was just gonna say that ..... well said

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Hey Doc ..... yakety yak

sourdough58 Loc: Maine

This is a interesting video of a solider who's mission was to go door to door and confiscate all guns from everyone after the Katrina flood, as he tells his story his voice shakes and you can tell he was ashamed of what he did. If the president declares marshal law we will be under military rule. My question is the soldiers first allegiance to our constitution or to the president that is not leading using the constitution the LAW of our Land.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FyfkQkchlu4

Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

A debate is a method where two extreme opposing sides have the opportunity to persuade those in the middle to support them.

However, having read too much rant from the pro-gun extremists I can only suggest that they are creating more opponents that supporters. A few Rambo types here have accused me of all sorts of things - which are only in their minds as nowhere in my posts have I judged or suggested changing anything.

Sadly, these people are showing extreme insecurity (you hate us etc.) and juvenility (you don't understand, if you aren't for me then you are against me). Add this to the obvious aggression and quickness to anger and then consider that these people have plenty of lethal weapons and it is no wonder that the 'Liberals' are worried and want more gun laws.

None of the Pro-guns Rambos have given me - and probably no other moderate person - any reasons why I should take them seriously and support their views.

lateron Loc: Yorkshire, England

I heartily agree.
For the American lobby, we had a constitution long before 1776 - it was called the Magna Carta!!!

lachmap Loc: Sydney Australia

You will never get a sensible debate here. It seems, from what I can read so far, that the pro gun lobby are terrified of the government imposing martial law (why? Why would it happen?)and having their guns taken away (heaven forbid) so they cannot fight the zombies when the world as we know it ends.
Phew!