Ruedrich Loc: Hampshire, UK

I've read a lot about the recent shootings in the US and yes I do sympathize with the victims and their families. I've also read a lot of talk about should you have guns or not and a common theme is that a good guy should be able to defend him - or herself against a bad guy by shooting - presumably first. OK - who's gonna make the decision as to who the good guy is and who he ain't. Sometimes, I'm sure - it's obvious - but if it isn't ? And do you really trust everyone who says he's a good guy - but you've already allowed him a gun.

Riverview

Ruedrich, You are 100% right. I was a law enforcement officer in one of the toughest cities in America for more than twenty years. During that time I saw good guys and bad guys. I saw good guys do bad things and I saw bad guys do good things. I saw the shootings, the wounded and the dead and sometimes it was the bad guys that were dead and sometimes it was the good guys that were dead. I find the argument that good guys should have guns as quite amusing. In the end you need to ask. Who are the good guys, who are the bad guys? The one thing I know is that if you ask a bad guy what he is, he'll almost always answer a good guy.
Should guns be illegal? I don't have an answer but I will say this. The United States is the most violent country in the industrialized world. This year we had 500 homicides in Chicago alone and 14612 murders in the USA for 2011 which is the last year that statistics are available for. (That's about 40 a day) Now admittedly, all those murders were not committed with firearms but 68% of them were (almost 10,000).
So,what is different between the USA and the UK? Easy access to guns is the one that jumps out at me. Lack of Mental Health care is the second. A general culture of violence and desensitization to bloodshed is the third.
In my opinion, we here in the USA need to address all three of these challenges but I don't think "arming the good guys" is a viable solution at all.

Ruedrich Loc: Hampshire, UK

Riverview,
While there is quite a large number of people who shoot legally in the UK - mostly 12 bore shotguns - the regulations for rifles or pistols are considerably stricter - you need to prove either that you are in a club and that your guns are kept there under lock and key or that you are a landowner who needs a gun for vermin control. Shotguns are relatively easy to get a permit for but the average guy doesn't expect to have a gun - in fact I don't think the average guy ever thinks about having one But, I think the worrying point is the third point you made about a general culture of violence and desensitization to bloodshed. There are definite signs of that happening here and the gang culture in our cities is getting to be a problem - quite often involving illegally held firearms.

ziggykor Loc: East Texas

Riverview, while those statistics are a bit depressing, how many of those "14612 murders" were commited by citizens using registered firearms? Seems to me that we are willing to be very simplistic and say the problem is guns, but there will be only two classes who have them if the ban side gets their way: law enforcement and the military, and the criminals.

Let me see now the general over riding feeling among law enforcement and the military (I've done both) is that if you ain't one of us you're against us. And the criminals just want power to do their deeds without worry. To be honest, based on my life experience I have full trust in neither.

lachmap Loc: Sydney Australia

That's fine "law enforcement and the military and the criminals". They will always have guns regardless of bans. What a ban brings about is keeping the guns out of the hands of people with mental issues who use guns as a first resort or as deemed fit by their personal problems. If they didn't have guns then people would be far less likely to walk into a public place and shoot up innocent people.
So tell me again, why do 'ordinary' people need assault weapons and home-made machine guns? If the reason is because it is their right, then it shouldn't be. What are they really afraid of? Whatever it is, these weapons are not necessary.

Wabbit Loc: Arizona Desert

Hey Doc ..... sorry pal, you don't sound like a LEO .....

..... you know what jumps out at me, I smell a Rat ..... probably a UK Rat .....

Danilo Loc: Las Vegas

I've never felt the actual NEED for a gun. So What? It's never been about need. It's not the Bill of Needs, it's the Bill of Rights. If one of your rights are taken from you, you become less than what you were.
No one NEEDS 4 tons of steel and plastic to roll their happy 150 lb. ass down the road to the grocery store. Hell, a 90 pound scooter could do the same thing. No one NEEDS a vehicle that travels at 150mph when that speed is illegal in all 50 states. No one NEEDS a pink flamingo in their front yard!
The "rights" that are guaranteed us under the Constitution and Bill of Rights are specifically there to protect us from our government. We have the right to free speech so our government can't silence us. We have the freedom from unwarranted search and seizure to protect us from who? The government.
I don't need to be afraid of something to want a gun, just as I don't need to drive to own a car. All I NEED is to afford to buy that item (gun, car) rather than steal it.

viscountdriver Loc: East Kent UK

Whilst I firmly believe the UK ban on guns is the right way to go it seems to me that every time I open a newspaper there is a report of someone getting stabbed, usually gang related.
The problem is not the guns or knives it is the society we live in where law enforcement has been sidelined in the scramble to save money.
Double the police force and double the sentences and we would all be safer.

Ruedrich Loc: Hampshire, UK

Danilo, OK it's your guaranteed right. Lets for a minute accept that and go a bit further. It is also the right of those people who don't want to carry or own guns to be able to live their lives without the constant fear that they may be the victims -intentionally or otherwise of some other joker exercising his or her right to own and presumably use their armoury of assault weapons.
Your "Right" to own a gun was acknowledged when your country was a relatively lawless one in which you couldn't rely on a lawman to be there to defend you - and if you say that all the signs are that the lawlessness is still a big part of your lives - I'm afraid you have to ask yourself if you should be surprised when your country is awash with lethal weapons.

For the idiot who talked of a UK rat - I am an American who says - your attitude is bad - grow up

Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

:thumbup: :thumbup: At last - a voice of reason and one with good credentials. :thumbup: :thumbup:

Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

Sadly - we usually follow the USA in the bad things! :(

Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

Oh - you Americans with your paranoia and love for arms. You will all be driving around in armed tanks soon to keep yourself safe from all the other nuts with heavy armament.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AcVSEY2DP0

This time - In a much more civilized and gentle way - some of us Brits have beaten you to this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iix6I8uIbq8

Ive Fallen Loc: Chula, GA

i have asked and asked with no answer. is there no crime in the uk? are any of those crimes done with weapons of any kind? will you answer me?

LARRYR. Loc: Saint Martinville, La.

Really,Rely on a lawman to be there to defend you.
Were they there in the theater, the school, oh let's
not for get Fort Hood, Oh I forgot he was the one
treating our troops, so he had a right to bear arms.

Crwiwy Loc: Devon UK

Look back at some of the numerous recent UHH posts on Reflections on gun control and you will see that there is.
Start with http://www.uglyhedgehog.com/t-85138-14.html