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Mar 23, 2024 15:59:22   #
User ID
 
selmslie wrote:
The reason it is nonsense is because the author is trying to demonstrate something totally unachievable, complete equivalence. He is attempting to get the same depth of field (DOF) from two sensor crops.

To do this, he first needs to change the lens focal length to get the same field of view. That's not what we are discussing.

Having done that, he then has to change the aperture and that makes it necessary to change either the ISO or the shutter speed to get to the same brightness.

But what makes it nonsense is that he cannot achieve the same image because the aspect ratio will change. Only Fx, Dx and 6x9 formats provide a 3:2 aspect ratio. Most other formats provide different aspect ratios - 4:5, 3:4, 1:1, 6:7, 11:14, etc. In all cases, the aspect ratios are likely to change in post processing if additional cropping is applied. And that's where the entire concept falls apart. Any cropping applied in post processing will change the DOF and you need to start all over from the top.

And you can never achieve equivalence unless you manage to produce the same number of megapixels, the same sharpness an the same noise levels with each pair being compared.
The reason it is nonsense is because the author is... (show quote)

The aspect ratio doesnt matter. Its ignorable.

But for folks like you who cant ignore minutia, the "fix" back to identical aspect ratios all around is sooooooo friggin simple it doesnt need description. Try getting real every once in a while. Maybe (just maybe) youll find it somewhat refreshing.

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Mar 23, 2024 16:28:15   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
User ID wrote:
The aspect ratio doesnt matter. Its ignorable.

But for folks like you who cant ignore minutia, the "fix" back to identical aspect ratios all around is sooooooo friggin simple it doesnt need description. Try getting real every once in a while. Maybe (just maybe) youll find it somewhat refreshing.

All of us grownups know that equivalence has no practical significance. I'm just showing why it's a bogus concept.

The only use we have for crop factor is to change the "effective" focal length. We already know that a reduction in DOF is a side effect.

We also know that we can get back the lost DOF by stopping the lens down and slowing the shutter. That might help hide some noise. We don't have to get the ISO involved.

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Mar 23, 2024 20:19:44   #
BebuLamar
 
selmslie wrote:
All of us grownups know that equivalence has no practical significance. I'm just showing why it's a bogus concept.

The only use we have for crop factor is to change the "effective" focal length. We already know that a reduction in DOF is a side effect.

We also know that we can get back the lost DOF by stopping the lens down and slowing the shutter. That might help hide some noise. We don't have to get the ISO involved.


The guys who started the equivalence in f stop did that because they say the 300mm f/2.8 for M43 is equivalent to 600mm on the FF if that the case there is no 600mm f/2.8 in FF so they must say that the 300mm f/2.8 for M43 is only equivalent to 600mm f/5.6 in FF. That's all the reason why they came up with the equivalence thing.

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Mar 23, 2024 20:28:17   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
BebuLamar wrote:
The guys who started the equivalence in f stop did that because they say the 300mm f/2.8 for M43 is equivalent to 600mm on the FF if that the case there is no 600mm f/2.8 in FF so they must say that the 300mm f/2.8 for M43 is only equivalent to 600mm f/5.6 in FF. That's all the reason why they came up with the equivalence thing.

What they always overlook is that there is still a significant quality advantage to the larger format.

Equivalence is just a way to rationalize spending less money for a smaller, lighter camera.

Taken to the extreme, you end up using your smartphone.

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Mar 26, 2024 10:40:14   #
Bohica Loc: SE Coast of NC
 
BebuLamar wrote:
If you want to have the aperture displayed correctly with MF lenses you have to enter the lens data for each of the lens you use. It's in the NON CPU LENS DATA menu. You can enter the data for up to 9 lenses. Whenever you mount the lens you will have to select the lens number. This is not only for the camera to display the correct aperture in the viewfinder but also to get the Matrix Metering to work correctly.


This was my problem, all lenses were entered but I thought the camera would recognize the lens when attached, didn't know I had to go into menu and call up that particular lens everytime I used it. Been using them for yrs but just never noticed the discrepancy before

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Mar 26, 2024 11:38:18   #
BebuLamar
 
Bohica wrote:
This was my problem, all lenses were entered but I thought the camera would recognize the lens when attached, didn't know I had to go into menu and call up that particular lens everytime I used it. Been using them for yrs but just never noticed the discrepancy before


Since the lenses are non CPU there is no communication between body and lens thus the camera doesn't know which lens you mount on it.

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Mar 26, 2024 11:38:35   #
selmslie Loc: Fernandina Beach, FL, USA
 
Bohica wrote:
This was my problem, all lenses were entered but I thought the camera would recognize the lens when attached, didn't know I had to go into menu and call up that particular lens everytime I used it. Been using them for yrs but just never noticed the discrepancy before

Thanks for letting us know.

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