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Ansel Adam's "Zone System"
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Mar 1, 2024 13:48:12   #
A. T.
 
MJPerini wrote:
If you want to understand Film Photography, you really can't do much better then Ansel Adams.
He had lots of talents, he was a concert quality pianist and lover of music, a wonderful clear writer, and a scientist by avocation. He studied sensitometry in order to understand the technical side of photography. He did so well at that , he was paid buy Eastman Kodak and Polaroid corp as a consultant. He also loved a good party.
His central thesis was that of a scientist, he learned the process and experimented to perfect it.
That is the essence of the Zone system, and while the inherent 'Tone curve' of Digital capture is different than film capture, his scientific approach always holds up. As an Artist, he believed that you needed a deep technical understanding of your medium in order to make the medium more expressive of your creative vision.
He LOVED new technology, he DOVE into Polaroid, but always technology was interesting as a means of better artistic expression. I'm certain he would have loved and mastered digital technology.
He also loved his Hasselblads in his later years.
I still have all my original Hasselblad cameras & lenses including the incomparable 903 SWC.
So, great good luck in your endeavor
If you want to understand Film Photography, you re... (show quote)


Well, I thank you for responding and I'm sure you know what I mean when I say that this amazing camera is almost too beautiful to use. I have watched several YouTube videos of Ansel Adams and I have his book with 400 photographs that I'm still making my way through. I will always shoot digitally; however, I will also learn and shoot with this amazing Hasselblad and continue to learn this wonderful art of film photography. Please, always feel free to add any information that you might think would be helpful along this journey that's truly exciting.

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Mar 1, 2024 13:48:32   #
Edawsoni
 
A. T. wrote:
Thanks for the information. I have some serious learning to take on but I won't be developing my own negatives. I have a few companies that develop and scan film that I will give a try but I do plan on scanning my negatives in the future.


Film development is how you make the Zone System work. You expand or contract the contrast in your negatives via the film development time to better match the lighting contrast in the scene. A Zone System photographer marks their film to be developed with N for normal development and then N+ or N++ and/or N- or N-- to indicate the required development manipulation to adjust the film's response curve. That's what makes the Zone System work.

It's easy to process roll film at home. You need a daylight tank and reels, some measuring beakers a dark place to load the tank, a sink, thermometer and the chemistry.

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Mar 1, 2024 13:54:28   #
BebuLamar
 
E.L.. Shapiro wrote:

An analogy- You purchased a Hasselblad- it is like a beginning piano student purchasing a Steinway Grand Piano. The problem is, that the student can not sit down and play Rachmaninoff's Piano Concerti N0. 3 without first learning the scales, techniques, and lots of practice.



Having a Steinway as a beginner gives you a much better chance of sucess in the future than if you have a lousy out of tune and bad action piano.

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Mar 1, 2024 13:57:00   #
User ID
 
A. T. wrote:
I recently purchased Ansel Adam's book, "The Negative" specifically to understand and learn to apply the zone system of exposure. I just reached the chapter on the Zone System and though I shoot digitally, I'm finding that this system is amazing and can definitely be an added bonus. I also recently purchased a top mint condition Hasselblad 500CM that I'm over the moon excited to start using; however, there are some things that I need to learn about film photography. I've become a student once again and it's truly exciting.
I recently purchased Ansel Adam's book, "The ... (show quote)

Enjoy. But do beware. Adams and White had built a great cult out of "desimplification".

Take what you need and leave the rest. When questions arise, avoid use of the terms "zone system" and "ansel adams" whenever posting to the forum.

Youll get broader more objective photographic advice in the replies if you can strictly avoid those terms. Theres way too much mythology, blind worship, and simple plain ignorance that gets triggered by those terms, so just try to "keep it clean".

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Mar 1, 2024 14:13:39   #
User ID
 
srt101fan wrote:
Why would he know or even think of the "triangle" when ISO was not a variable other than by film change?

At least half of all advanced cameras in the film era provided for varying the ISO and switching between color and mono. The OPs new prize has that function.

I believe you know what I mean so I wont insult you with an explanation of something you already know (but are overlooking).

----------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the Triangle thing remains a mighty paragon of stoop piddity.

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Mar 1, 2024 14:18:24   #
A. T.
 
therwol wrote:
The zone system is the beginning for serious film photography. I think that an equivalent in digital photography is using histograms to assist in capturing highlights without burning them and preserving shadow detail. Both require some work before the exposure it taken.

There are other variables that have to be corrected either in printing or in a photo editor. Contrast is adjusted with different photo papers, for instance. Exposure by the enlarger and development time can be critical and may require some experimentation. Ansel Adams spent more time "adjusting" his images in a darkroom than he ever did taking the pictures. He wrote out specific printing instructions for his photos, including how and where to use dodging and burning.

The zone system is a good beginning, but it's only that. There are other things that have to be learned in the post processing of film, particularly black and white film. You can make some of the necessary adjustments if you print color film, but it's not going to be as easy. I think the best thing to do with color is to scan it and make adjustments in a photo editor.

These are my opinions. I haven't done this in a while.
The zone system is the beginning for serious film ... (show quote)


Absolutely, I don't ever plan on developing film at all. I want to spend the time to learn the process of photographing with film. I have been shooting digitally for some time now and have really developed a passion for the art. I have also developed a love for old vintage lenses and as I mentioned earlier, recently purchased a Hasselblad CM. I will continue to study, learn and practice with this amazing camera and would love any feedback from my UHH family that might be beneficial.

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Mar 1, 2024 14:24:53   #
BebuLamar
 
User ID wrote:
At least half of all advanced cameras in the film era provided for varying the ISO and switching between color and mono. The OPs new prize has that function.

I believe you know what I mean so I wont insult you with an explanation of something you already know (but are overlooking).

----------------------------------------------

Nevertheless, the Triangle thing remains a mighty paragon of stoop piddity.


I just wanted to point out that you may say Adams is good or bad but he definitely successful and he was very successful in his career as photographer without knowing the triangle. So I can conclude that the triangle is not needed for success but then.... the guy who invented the triangle was also very successful in selling books.

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Mar 1, 2024 14:30:29   #
A. T.
 
BBurns wrote:
Congrats on a great camera purchase. You will not be disappointed.
I was going to go into a long essay on this subject but the posts before me have said it all.

The fundamentals of photography have not changed.
It is sad that so many questions asked on the hog would be unnecessary if that basic knowledge were in place.

Us old film guys have an advantage because it is burned into our soul. We just look at a subject and shoot. We do the setup without a single thought most of the time. When you become one with your gear, it is a 6th sense.

Good luck. You will have fun.
Congrats on a great camera purchase. You will not ... (show quote)


It's so funny that you say, "when I become one with my gear", that's exactly how I feel with my digital equipment and it's exactly what I want with this Hasselblad and that is exactly why I'm here. You guys and gals in this forum are directly responsible for my success with my digital photography and I will always be grateful for the help and direction. I read every response and I respond to them all. I might be a bit slow at times in responding but my goal is to never have someone take time to provide answers and advice and I not at least respond. So never hesitate to give an opinion or advice on my posts, it's always appreciated. So, many thanks to you for responding.

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Mar 1, 2024 14:43:49   #
A. T.
 
Edawsoni wrote:
Film development is how you make the Zone System work. You expand or contract the contrast in your negatives via the film development time to better match the lighting contrast in the scene. A Zone System photographer marks their film to be developed with N for normal development and then N+ or N++ and/or N- or N-- to indicate the required development manipulation to adjust the film's response curve. That's what makes the Zone System work.

It's easy to process roll film at home. You need a daylight tank and reels, some measuring beakers a dark place to load the tank, a sink, thermometer and the chemistry.
Film development is how you make the Zone System w... (show quote)


Thanks for responding but my issue is that I really don't have the room in my home for the equipment to develop film. I'm okay with that and have located several film developing companies that I have made contact with to discuss different developing techniques. Now I guess my understanding is that when I send in the film for development I should specify the type of developing that I want, correct?

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Mar 1, 2024 14:44:48   #
BBurns Loc: South Bay, California
 
A. T. wrote:
It's so funny that you say, "when I become one with my gear", that's exactly how I feel with my digital equipment and it's exactly what I want with this Hasselblad and that is exactly why I'm here. You guys and gals in this forum are directly responsible for my success with my digital photography and I will always be grateful for the help and direction. I read every response and I respond to them all. I might be a bit slow at times in responding but my goal is to never have someone take time to provide answers and advice and I not at least respond. So never hesitate to give an opinion or advice on my posts, it's always appreciated. So, many thanks to you for responding.
It's so funny that you say, "when I become on... (show quote)
Please understand the my statement about 'questions' was in general and in no way meant towards yours.
It's the "I'm going to whatever. What lens or settings should I use?" that shows the lack of understanding.

Reply
Mar 1, 2024 14:45:09   #
A. T.
 
BebuLamar wrote:
Having a Steinway as a beginner gives you a much better chance of sucess in the future than if you have a lousy out of tune and bad action piano.


Absolutely, that's what I hope, LOL.

Reply
 
 
Mar 1, 2024 14:55:29   #
A. T.
 
User ID wrote:
Enjoy. But do beware. Adams and White had built a great cult out of "desimplification".

Take what you need and leave the rest. When questions arise, avoid use of the terms "zone system" and "ansel adams" whenever posting to the forum.

Youll get broader more objective photographic advice in the replies if you can strictly avoid those terms. Theres way too much mythology, blind worship, and simple plain ignorance that gets triggered by those terms, so just try to "keep it clean".
Enjoy. But do beware. Adams and White had built a ... (show quote)


Well my friend, you have just said a mouthful. After reading these posts, I certainly understand where you're coming from. Although I really appreciate ALL of the responses that I have received, it can be a bit overwhelming at times, even as I read Ansel's book. I guess what I'm looking for in my reading and study is a practical means of applying the information and techniques applicable to film photography. I have purchased a sekonic spot meter to assist in metering scenes to be photographed. I want to know but I don't want to get so bogged down with technical information that it takes the fun out of shooting with this amazing camera if that makes any sense.

Reply
Mar 1, 2024 14:55:34   #
TriX Loc: Raleigh, NC
 
BBurns wrote:
Congrats on a great camera purchase. You will not be disappointed.
I was going to go into a long essay on this subject but the posts before me have said it all.

The fundamentals of photography have not changed.
It is sad that so many questions asked on the hog would be unnecessary if that basic knowledge were in place.

Us old film guys have an advantage because it is burned into our soul. We just look at a subject and shoot. We do the setup without a single thought most of the time. When you become one with your gear, it is a 6th sense.

Good luck. You will have fun.
Congrats on a great camera purchase. You will not ... (show quote)

Exactly right in all respects. I bought Ansel Adam’s 3 classic books in the early 70s and the zone system was a revelation for me in “seeing” light. As the OP begins his film journey, a copy of “The Negative” and understanding the zone system would be part of a good foundation, especially when shooting B&W.

Reply
Mar 1, 2024 15:03:50   #
A. T.
 
BBurns wrote:
Please understand the my statement about 'questions' was in general and in no way meant towards yours.
It's the "I'm going to whatever. What lens or settings should I use?" that shows the lack of understanding.


Oh no, absolutely it's all good. I didn't take your statement to mean anything derogatory at all.

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Mar 1, 2024 15:04:23   #
BBurns Loc: South Bay, California
 
TriX wrote:
Exactly right in all respects. I bought Ansel Adam’s 3 classic books in the early 70s and the zone system was a revelation for me in “seeing” light. As the OP begins his film journey, a copy of “The Negative” and understanding the zone system would be part of a good foundation, especially when shooting B&W.

Reply
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