mikee

We've all heard it...the NRA rhetoric. It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun. Well, what happened in KC yesterday then? There were 800 good guys (police; highly trained, all armed, wearing vests, dedicated to protecting the citizens of their good city) who couldn't stop a few bag guys from k*****g and injuring 20 people. Video shows very courageous unarmed bystanders take down a suspect. It kinda shoots that rhetoric full of holes, doesn't it? The availabity of guns is a problem. That point can't be argued.

One Rude Dawg Loc: Athol, ID

Where are the cops that are supposed to protect you?

Frank T Loc: New York, NY

The cops were there. There were 800 of them, yet these psychopaths managed to shoot 15 people.
Considering how easy it is to get, possess, and conceal a gun in Missouri, one might ask another question.
Why can anyone, possess and conceal a firearm with no permit?
The real question is: With more than 18,000 firearm deaths in this country last year, what is it going to take to pass some responsible gun laws?
The answer is: As long as the NRA keeps buying politicians it won't happen. It didn't even happen when Scalise got shot at a ball game, so what makes anyone think they give a s**t about us.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Guys, there may have been 800 cops, but an estimated 1 million+ in the crowd? That is one cop for 1250 people. Those cops can only be in one place at a time each. The entire time of the shooting was measured in seconds. By the time the first cops started responding the bystanders had already tackled the one guy.
Two of the 3 suspects are juveniles, so having a gun on them was probably already illegal. But they still had guns.

About 15-20,000 laws, regulations etc. that have something to do with guns (manufacturing, selling, owning, possession, security, carrying etc.) when you add the local, county, state and federal together. They cover just about any circumstances you can think of. So in most places it isn't having a law, it is if those laws are/can be enforced or not.

Remember, "outlaws" by definition don't obey laws. If every civilian gun in the US magically vanished today, by tomorrow, the drug smugglers would have a "Guns R Us" branch smuggling in guns* to sell to those outlaws so they can protect their product stock and dispute sales areas with the rival gangs.

Long ago I watched a video of the man who at the time held the title "Fastest Gun" from the Cowboy Shooting competitions with a blank only gun for him and his opponents, in one case a 70 yo grandmother. He tried to see the opponent start to pull a canceled gun and fire at him, and then he did a quick draw from a custom speed holster to attempt to shoot the opponent before they shot him. He lost every time. A few times he did manage to fire about 1/100th of a second behind, among others, the 70 yo. Meaning he most likely would not get off a shot having been dead for 1/100th of a second.

*And probably not military look alike guns but the real deal. And nary a purchase record form or background check involved.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Forgot, the timeline, in seconds for the actual shooting. Yes, seconds.

When working for my friend who owned a gun shop, police gear store, I got qualified as an instructor for the Glock brand pistols and helped train police who were going over to Glock for department issue.

One thing all the departments wanted to know was how fast can we take aimed shots and hit a suspect in a gun fight?
Now I am very slow compared to some shooters I worked with but at 15 yards I could empty all 15 rounds in a Glock 9mm into a human sized silhouette target's 8 ring (the pretty much guaranteed "k**l" zone) in about 3 seconds.

At 25 yards I could hit 6 18" metal gong targets in the same time, firing a "double tap"(two fast shots) at each and 4 of them both my shots hit.

So that shooting was over faster than the cops could respond, even if some of them had been looking right at the shooters. Of course, they wouldn't have done a quick draw and shoot because of the crowd. They would have had to do the same thing as the bystanders did, tackle them. Otherwise we would be seeing headlines about how "trigger happy cops" shot up the crowd as well as the suspects.

tramsey Loc: Texas

Exactly right, we don't need any more laws on the books that people are going to ignore. I think the Kansas City PD did the right thing. That's some excellent shooting back when I was a cop I belonged to a gun club and did some tournament shooting, no fast draw, just slow, hold your breath and slowly pull the trigger and every time be surprised when the gun goes off. At twenty five yards I could put a nickel over five shots and cover them. I won a grand master's trophy. I shot a 45 Colt Gold Cup and still have it.

A gun don't k**l any more than a pencil fails a test

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Now my keep it loaded and hidden for home defense gun is a Browning HiPower in 9mm with wide mouth hollow points to cut down on over penetration maybe hitting someone or another house on the street.
Normally I favor the .45 ACP in Colt or a double stack mag, double action made in Spain that I own. Then a few years before my friend retired and sold his business, I discovered 10mm and 40S&W. A stainless colt in 10mm, a Glock full size in 10mm (my normal carry piece at the gun shop those years) and a sub compact 40S&W that holds 5 in the mag and 1 in the chamber and fits in a jacket or Levi pocket as a backup/concealment piece. Now if there was just some way short of a miracle or huge political donation to the Sheriff, I could get a permit here in the People's Republic of California.
Now both of us are retired we have considered selling and moving, maybe to my home town in Kentucky but most of our families are here in CA and I would have to change health plans etc.
I did buy one of the Byrna 68 caliber less than lethal pistol launchers that is not legally a gun, even in CA, and I am waiting for an opinion from the local PD and the Sheriff's office as to if I can carry it concealed or open when out with multi-thousands of dollars of camera gear. And I am usually on my $3k+ mobility scooter, which two strong homies could pick up and put in their pickup truck. But I am not holding my breath on that.

A lot of people, including some cops I know say there just too many laws about everything. They need to be thinned out and combined to a manageable number. They have a short list of ones the concentrate on. Not only that, but they would spend 3/4 of their time on the computer looking things up if they attempted to enforce all of them.

tramsey Loc: Texas

Come to Texas, September 2021 we passed a law for open or concealed carry w/o a permit, hand gun or rifle. People went kind nuts for a while and would swagger down the street with a holstered gun on their hip and a rifle slung over their shoulder. But things settled down and the Cowboys are mostly back on the football field.
That's quite an arsenal you have the 45. 10mm, and the 40 are close to the same ballistics. I like my Gold Cup still take it out and shoot every now and then. I still have most the guns that I used in tournament shooting: Smith &Wesson Model 52 wadcutter, i don't shoot it much any more. I used to make the target ammo for the PD then it was used a lot. I have Roger 22 with a bull barrel. I had it worked over by the same company that did the Gold Cup, it's silky smooth. I can't remember the company that did the work. But they made target grips for both the 52 and the Gold Cup. My dad gave me a Samuel Colt Peacemaker 45 caliber that was actually used and shot back in the eighteen hundreds. I have one rifle in this whole bunch, a 1964 Sako Finnbear 300 Winchester magnum, what a cannon that is. But I used to reload for it and it was good for deer all the way up to Kodiak brown bear. Those were the days. Now they are in the back of my closet along with my Brownie Hawkeye.

rcarol

People who are bent on committing a heinous crime such as the one at KC don't give a s**t about laws and permits. Laws and permits would not have prevented this crime.

rcarol

about 20 years ago, a group of anti-gun advocates leaked the names and addresses of all of the people that had weapons in this particular community. I believe that it was a community in one of the New England states if memory serves me. The purpose of leaking this information was an attempt to bring shame to these gun owners. The net result was that crime took a nosedive in this community.

robertjerl Loc: Corona, California

Something similar happened in Florida. In one area a lot of single women were being attacked and mugged if lucky. If not lucky... So the Sheriff and town/city PDs started free self-defense training classes with local gun shops giving discounts on guns and ammunition to graduates. The numbers of women passing the class each week was published in newspapers, radio and TV. Guess which type of crime pretty much became extinct in a month or two?

During my time teaching in East Los Angeles (Mexican American/Latino area with lots of gangs at that time) one Monday in my 1st Period class one of the boys was busting he wanted to talk to the class so much. So I let him. It seems his Grandmother would walk to the bank each month on the Saturday after she got her Social Security and Pension checks. She would cash the checks and then go to the post office to send a money order to family in Mexico and stop at the local market that delivered her groceries to her on a tab and pay off the last month's bill.
Well it seems that on the Saturday that just passed, a gang banger tried to mug her. What he didn't know was that her husband who was a Marine in WW2 had taught her to shoot and got her a .38 when he knew he was dying of cancer and told her to always keep it close. The banger had watched her leave the bank, with her knitting bag she always carried. He demanded the money and grinned when she acted scared and reached into the knitting bag like she was giving him the money. But she pulled out the .38 and knee capped him, then went on her way. When the Sheriffs and ambulance showed and collected the guy he said that a car full of rival gang members did a drive by on him. Too Macho to admit a little white haired Granny had done it. The students, who had to live with those gangs, cheered and laughed "Go Granny, un pistolaro muy peligroso." (very dangerous gunfighter)

The kids at the school (a Junior High School, I taught 8th graders) spread the word and soon most of the women started to carry knitting bags when they went out. Muggings went way down.

tradio Loc: Oxford, Ohio

Every once in a while someone will write something that is so stupid that you just lean back in your chair, shake your head and say, WOW.

That just happened.

wilpharm Loc: Oklahoma

same in Okla..open or concealed

Blurryeyed Loc: NC Mountains.

So, propose a constitutional amendment. Stop whining and do something productive, or maybe, support law enforcement clearing out the gangs in these communities and clamping down on the lawlessness we are seeing throughout the country.

wilpharm Loc: Oklahoma

thats not the LIBERAL way!!!