Ugly Hedgehog - Photography Forum
Home Active Topics Newest Pictures Search Login Register
Main Photography Discussion
Back to the Future - manual focusing on mirrorless
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
Jan 30, 2024 17:34:29   #
wdross Loc: Castle Rock, Colorado
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
I was playing around with a couple of my older OM film cameras the other day and noted how much I liked focusing with the micro prism/split prism viewfinder focusing aid. I was thinking why modern day camera makers have not made a digital simulation of that focusing aid in our EVFs on current day mirrorless cameras. Do you think something like that would be welcome, or do you know of any that implement this feature? Yes, I like focus peaking too but sometimes it's a pain.


There were about 10 interchangeable screens. I had the center split screen / micro prism and an all center micro prism screen. I had the one with the grid lines etched into it for leveling and helping with Rule of Thirds. But I also had the all mat finish screen that I liked the best. It always told you what was in focus across the whole viewfinder with just one look. The mat screen in my OM4ti, with its ability to do up to eight 2.5° spot readings for exposure, was one of the very best slide film cameras ever made. One could easily fit the exposure the best way it could be fit in that narrow slide film range. One felt so less challenged using print film or black and white film with those films extra range.

Reply
Jan 30, 2024 18:51:23   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
I was playing around with a couple of my older OM film cameras the other day and noted how much I liked focusing with the micro prism/split prism viewfinder focusing aid. I was thinking why modern day camera makers have not made a digital simulation of that focusing aid in our EVFs on current day mirrorless cameras. Do you think something like that would be welcome, or do you know of any that implement this feature? Yes, I like focus peaking too but sometimes it's a pain.


Honestly, if you need a center-frame split prism to manually focus on a modern digital technology marvel of a mirrorless camera, you're doing it wrong.

Instead, you should:

a) consider your composition and tap your touch screen to place your AF point of focus as appropriate for the composition, anyplace other than the frame center.

b) raise your camera to your eye in a shooting position and 'pop' the EVF to the 10x zoom of the details where you've set the AF point, aka focus magnification.

c) carefully and precisely focus your MF legacy lens for the details using the 100% zoomed view of the subject.

Capture the image, letting the zoomed view drop back to the full-screen view of the composition. Regarding the colored shimmer showing the plane of focus, aka focus peaking in the mirrorless EVF, this really only works well when MF lens is precisely focused via focus magnification. Go into your user manual and find how to set the peak color (shimmer) to the maximum / extreme / highest setting. Consider using red instead of yellow or white. Once the MF lens is focused for the composition, that shimmering color can now be used to track any subtle changes to the focus (forward or backward) of where the lens is currently focused for the current composition. The 'maximum' setting makes the plane of focus rather obvious in the EVF.

Finally, for focus magnification, consider having this tool assigned on an external button so you 'pop' the EVF by pressing that (re)programmed button, again with the camera held to your eye in a shooting position. Ideally, you can go from 0% zoom to 100% with one press. Alas, you might need to cycle a few steps to the max 100%. Check your User's Manual for confirmation.

Reply
Jan 31, 2024 05:58:23   #
camerapapi Loc: Miami, Fl.
 
I am in that group that used film for many years of my life. From a nostalgic point of view I understand how a person could feel when looking through one of those viewfinders. I also had them.
Photography turned around when Minolta introduced AF, I believe around 1976. Now focus was fast and precise and if manual focus was preferred with the new digital cameras we have a green light in the viewfinder indicating that focus has been achieved.

I believe Leica is still using a level for manual focus in many of their cameras. For stationary subjects it poses no problems but for other subjects that could be problematic. AF shines for fast action and wildlife photography. It took Leica years to accept it and even today it is not present in all of their cameras. I could be wrong but I do not know of any other camera today that uses manual focus only.

If you ask me, a young man that has been using cameras for more than 60 years I would say that autofocus is very hard to beat. I do not use manual focus with digital except when I use my manual lenses and as I said, only for stationary subjects. Autofocus, in my case, has completely changed the way I focus on my subjects. I do not miss the past, AF is very practical, easy and precise.

Reply
 
 
Jan 31, 2024 07:21:43   #
billnikon Loc: Pennsylvania/Ohio/Florida/Maui/Oregon/Vermont
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
I was playing around with a couple of my older OM film cameras the other day and noted how much I liked focusing with the micro prism/split prism viewfinder focusing aid. I was thinking why modern day camera makers have not made a digital simulation of that focusing aid in our EVFs on current day mirrorless cameras. Do you think something like that would be welcome, or do you know of any that implement this feature? Yes, I like focus peaking too but sometimes it's a pain.


I have not missed them since I switched to auto focus camera's more than 30 years ago.

Reply
Jan 31, 2024 09:30:41   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
billnikon wrote:
I have not missed them since I switched to auto focus camera's more than 30 years ago.



I remember it well as I grew up in that transition phase from manual to auto focus. I even remember some saying at the time you weren't a "pro" or serious photographer unless you shot manual focus with manual exposure. Then gradually AE and AF cameras became accepted into the pro arenas with Minolta Maxxum and Canon EOS cameras. God forbid if you used the Program mode, however. How did we manage with manual focus back then before AF cameras and lenses became available? We survived somehow with fast fingers and quick thinking - and we took great pictures and even many action shots with manual focus by anticipating where the action would be - at home plate, at the finish line, in the end zone, at the front door of a building, or at the goalie's net for example. We used higher f numbers to make up for any fudge factor.

Now today we are so spoiled we expect our cameras AF system to almost read our minds! Using manual focus almost seems so Fred Flintstone these days, but for certain genres (macro for example) manual focus is an advantage. Somehow AF does take some of the fun away too, but on the other hand, it also opens up a whole bunch of other decision making factors - which AF mode do I use, how many focus points do I need, continuous or single, face/eye/animal/bird detection, etc. Interesting times.

Reply
Jan 31, 2024 10:51:36   #
wmurnahan Loc: Bloomington IN
 
I agree, when manually focusing, I miss the split focus aid. I could manual focus way faster and better with it. I hate the feature that temp gives you a close up because I lose where I'm at, I have been using the feature that highlights the focus edges with a color but I miss the spit circle.

Reply
Jan 31, 2024 11:02:47   #
JBuckley
 
Using the "prism" reminds me of my old (1959) Argus C-3, Range Finder camera.
After your vision starts to fade, the range finder makes focusing a cinch.

Reply
 
 
Jan 31, 2024 12:33:29   #
User ID
 
wmurnahan wrote:
I agree, when manually focusing, I miss the split focus aid. I could manual focus way faster and better with it. I hate the feature that temp gives you a close up because I lose where I'm at, I have been using the feature that highlights the focus edges with a color but I miss the spit circle.

Check whether you can set the magnifier for picture in picture. Not all cameras can do it.

Reply
Jan 31, 2024 16:02:56   #
petrochemist Loc: UK
 
The split / microprisms were good on my manual SLRs when using normal lenses, but this center split became pretty close to unusable with telephotos.

I find the focus peaking on those of my (oldish) mirrorless cameras that support it is about as good as the microprisms for speed & accuracy of focusing (and covers the entire view not just the central portion). Switching to magnified view allows more accurate focus than could be achieved on my SLRs.

This style of SLR focus aid might be better than available on the Panasonic G1, but I'm not convinced it was as good as my old G5 could manage (neither of these had peaking). I would think on today's cameras it's only advantage would be nostalgic & I don't see that being remotely enough to pay for programming time in setting it up.

Reply
Feb 1, 2024 05:33:57   #
chrisg-optical Loc: New York, NY
 
CHG_CANON wrote:
Honestly, if you need a center-frame split prism to manually focus on a modern digital technology marvel of a mirrorless camera, you're doing it wrong.

Instead, you should:

a) consider your composition and tap your touch screen to place your AF point of focus as appropriate for the composition, anyplace other than the frame center.

b) raise your camera to your eye in a shooting position and 'pop' the EVF to the 10x zoom of the details where you've set the AF point, aka focus magnification.

c) carefully and precisely focus your MF legacy lens for the details using the 100% zoomed view of the subject.

Capture the image, letting the zoomed view drop back to the full-screen view of the composition. Regarding the colored shimmer showing the plane of focus, aka focus peaking in the mirrorless EVF, this really only works well when MF lens is precisely focused via focus magnification. Go into your user manual and find how to set the peak color (shimmer) to the maximum / extreme / highest setting. Consider using red instead of yellow or white. Once the MF lens is focused for the composition, that shimmering color can now be used to track any subtle changes to the focus (forward or backward) of where the lens is currently focused for the current composition. The 'maximum' setting makes the plane of focus rather obvious in the EVF.

Finally, for focus magnification, consider having this tool assigned on an external button so you 'pop' the EVF by pressing that (re)programmed button, again with the camera held to your eye in a shooting position. Ideally, you can go from 0% zoom to 100% with one press. Alas, you might need to cycle a few steps to the max 100%. Check your User's Manual for confirmation.
Honestly, if you need a center-frame split prism t... (show quote)


Honestly I don't need the split/micro prism to manually focus but I think camera makers have not optimized manual focusing on modern mirrorless cameras - focus peaking and spot zooming leave much to be desired. I was just suggesting as an additional option to other manual focusing aids the old familiar and simple split/micro prism aid which was simple and quick on film cameras (would be most appropriate on retro cameras like the Zf) ...on modern cameras can be enabled/disabled, and even re-positioned and resized which was not possible with real glass. Also modern cameras have too much info in the EVFs...less is more. Thanks for the tips.

Reply
Feb 1, 2024 08:56:45   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
Honestly I don't need the split/micro prism to manually focus but I think camera makers have not optimized manual focusing on modern mirrorless cameras - focus peaking and spot zooming leave much to be desired. I was just suggesting as an additional option to other manual focusing aids the old familiar and simple split/micro prism aid which was simple and quick on film cameras (would be most appropriate on retro cameras like the Zf) ...on modern cameras can be enabled/disabled, and even re-positioned and resized which was not possible with real glass. Also modern cameras have too much info in the EVFs...less is more. Thanks for the tips.
Honestly I don't need the split/micro prism to man... (show quote)


The human controls what is displayed in the EVF. You can adjust your settings to your desired configuration.

The mirrorless EVF exceeds the wildest dreams of any SLR photographer, me being one of them still. Zooming to the fine details of any section of the frame geography alone makes a wish for a centered full-frame focus point laughable.

Consider my suggestion for programming an external button to control the EVF focus magnification operation. Yes, the designs of the mirrorless cameras I've used could be better to better support legacy film-era MF lenses, but a prism vs an AF point isn't one of those candidate improvements.

Reply
 
 
Feb 1, 2024 09:36:34   #
SuperflyTNT Loc: Manassas VA
 
chrisg-optical wrote:
Honestly I don't need the split/micro prism to manually focus but I think camera makers have not optimized manual focusing on modern mirrorless cameras - focus peaking and spot zooming leave much to be desired. I was just suggesting as an additional option to other manual focusing aids the old familiar and simple split/micro prism aid which was simple and quick on film cameras (would be most appropriate on retro cameras like the Zf) ...on modern cameras can be enabled/disabled, and even re-positioned and resized which was not possible with real glass. Also modern cameras have too much info in the EVFs...less is more. Thanks for the tips.
Honestly I don't need the split/micro prism to man... (show quote)


I’d have to disagree. Focus magnification is far superior to any of the focusing aids on SLR’s.

Reply
Feb 1, 2024 11:51:43   #
Picture Taker Loc: Michigan Thumb
 
Todays cameras are better and faster focusing than we use to be so concentrate on other ways to make better pictures. I'm using all the help I can from technology and trying to make better pictures. 10 years ago I might of been happy with my pictures today, but today I'm looking to improve more.
I don't ever expect to say that's good enough.

Reply
Feb 1, 2024 12:11:59   #
CHG_CANON Loc: the Windy City
 
Picture Taker wrote:
Todays cameras are better and faster focusing than we use to be so concentrate on other ways to make better pictures. I'm using all the help I can from technology and trying to make better pictures. 10 years ago I might of been happy with my pictures today, but today I'm looking to improve more.
I don't ever expect to say that's good enough.


Although this observation is accurate, the specifics of the OP are how to use amazing MF lenses on today's marvel of digital technology aka an IBIS-enabled mirrorless digital camera and mount adapter. Fast and accurate is more a function of the human's abilities; but, the enabling technologies of these MILCs greatly enhance the possible accomplishments of the human involved. I have MF images from MILC bodies that rival the best of my AF results, and those results stand head and shoulders better than ever accomplished with the same lenses on their native manual focus film bodies.

Reply
Feb 3, 2024 12:38:54   #
kpsk_sony
 
Modern cameras do so much of the focusing. "Stupidity thy name is convenience."

Reply
Page <prev 2 of 3 next>
If you want to reply, then register here. Registration is free and your account is created instantly, so you can post right away.
Main Photography Discussion
UglyHedgehog.com - Forum
Copyright 2011-2024 Ugly Hedgehog, Inc.