jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

You almost have to feel sorry for Boeing. Did you know that they no longer manufacture planes? The just assemble them. They buy the parts from companies all over the world, so they don't have the level of control that they used to have.

At one time, they owned Spirit, but they sold it. Now, Spirit makes bodies, wings, and other components for Boeing, AirBus, and smaller companies. Boeing accounts for most of Spirit's income, but they push them to turn out product quickly. Rushing the manufacture of an airplane is never a good idea. There have been so many "escapements" - manufacturing defects! Apparently, it sounds better to say you're dealing with escapements, rather than defects.

Several airlines are reconsidering buying from Boeing, but AirBus is the only other show in town, so there will be a very long wait for new planes.

BebuLamar

The split their company into a lot of smaller ones because they try to keep only the most profitable part of the business. So it's sad for you and me but not for them.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Ah, yes. Profit.

Mark Sturtevant Loc: Grand Blanc, MI

They need to restructure and put their engineers back in the saddle for making decisions about design and safety.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Yes, but they're having trouble finding qualified engineers willing to work without a salary.

I wonder how large a bonus Calhoun got last year for doing such a good job.

BebuLamar

They paid the executives too much so they no money left for engineers.

Jimmy T Loc: Virginia

How about a Quality Assurance Program with Teeth?

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Teeth are for eating, and having so many inspectors ate up a lot of profit. Boeing got rid of many inspectors, but it recently started hiring some.

BurghByrd Loc: Pittsburgh

According to an article I read the current company is the result of a merger between Boing and McDonald Douglas back in 1997; the point being made that the resultant company was essentailly comprised of Boing engineering and McDonald Douglas management. In Wikipedia it states that:

"In 2020, Quartz reported that after the merger there was a "clash of corporate cultures, where Boeing's engineers and McDonnell Douglas's bean-counters went head-to-head", which the latter won, and that this may have contributed to the events leading up to the 737 MAX crash crisis."

BebuLamar

“Inspection does not improve quality, nor guarantee quality. Inspection is too late. The quality, good or bad, is already in the product.” Edward Deming said so. And he knew something about quality.

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Supposedly, Boeing bought M-D. The head of M-D took over, and he switched the company from making planes to making money. He did extremely well at that. Many people made millions as their stock shot up in value. Eventually, all the cost cutting took its toll. Boeing is so far behind in filling orders that it will take them years to catch up. They want to produce fifty 737s a month. They're struggling to make even thirty now. Going back to repair defects on completed planes will slow them down even more. This isn't a 737 problem; it's a Boeing problem.

YouTube, some good ones -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhRYqvCAX_k&t=485s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1b0eyrE7tXU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubtVds_2TZ4

jerryc41 Loc: Catskill Mts of NY

Right, but Boeing's problem is that it does not include "quality" in its products. Assuming that everyone does a perfect job is a bad way to run a company. An inspector can catch a mistake so someone can correct it. That's a better plan than having the NTSB find mistakes. Many crashes have been caused by repairs that were not inspected after the work was done - using the wrong part or installing the right part incorrectly. "Two heads are better than one."

alby Loc: very eastern pa.

cabin was depressurizing, no one sitting in the close seats, not flying over water !!! THEY knew there was a problem !!! FIND it, FIX it, DONE !!!

pendennis

Well quoted! I had the honor of attending one of Dr. Deming's seminars in the 70's. He warned us not to get over-enthusiastic about quality changes. However, my enthusiasm for his teachings has never waned, and he was totally correct. I went back to my company and was generally thought to be a rabble-rouser. Everyone believed you could improve quality by adding QC checkers along the vehicle assembly lines. They also believed that if the part didn't quite fit, "get a bigger hammer".

Later in the 70's, after our plant was nearly closed for quality issues, the management finally got the picture. Ford did finally start its quest for quality improvement by starting at the very beginning of parts design. Management also got installer's involved early-on. When our plant improved and the newly-designed Ford Ranger was assigned to our plant, hourly workers were sent to Dearborn, and involved in all phases of the design, engineering, production. They had to fight hide-bound engineers who thought they knew more about assembly than the assemblers did. One example - On the assembly line, there was a choke point involving stringing a wire harness on the truck frame. The engineer told the assembler that he needed to "stick to the plan" when the assembler couldn't get the routing correct. Our plant manager saw the exchange, told the engineer to listen to the assembler, or go back to Dearborn. Turns out the assembler, from years of working on trucks knew the best routing that not only saved time, but improved the protection of the wiring harness.

I saw a rerun of an episode of "American Greed, Scams, and Scoundrels" about Boeing/Douglas, and the debacle with the Boeing 737 "Max". It showed the absolute incompetence of the bean counters when two of those airliners crashed.

Ford got Alan Mulally, an engineering exec at Boeing, after Mulally was passed over for promotion in 2006. Good thing he got to Ford; he changed the culture and took pride in doing away with the "smoke stack" mentality that pervaded our company.

rcarol

"Profit" is not a dirty word. Not many businesses survive without it.