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The rise of the AI V
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Dec 18, 2023 10:22:32   #
Papa Joe Loc: Midwest U.S.
 
Hmm, the way I view AI:
I still 'category' it in the photographic arena.
It's simply an 'outgrowth' from the photographic world. How possible would AI be, without the 'photos' it uses to create its product? Is it not still 'linked' to 'photos' (photography)?
Just my two-cents worth.
(Nice job, by the way).
God Bless,
Papa Joe

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Dec 18, 2023 10:28:09   #
goofybruce
 
Sony and the Associated Press are working on an agreement by which Sony camera will include coding in the metadata imprinted with each photo taken which will identify which camera owned by which photographer/company took the picture. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/sony-electronics-and-the-associated-press-complete-testing-of-advanced-in-camera-authenticity-technology-to-address-growing-concerns-around-fake-imagery-301995235.html

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Dec 18, 2023 10:32:50   #
srt101fan
 
lamiaceae wrote:
Like the last time, virtually all the replies are about the Where (on UHH) for this AI post and not the What! So far three pages of where and where not which section this AI post should be posted. I would think there would be tons of questions. One reply by the OP that explained anything about his technique. Personally it was over my head. And maybe starting simple with one portion of the process would draw more in and be understandable by us non-AI graphic artists. Personally I am not a fan of AI beyond Photoshop Content Aware Fill and Removal. And I am rather fearful of the process for the reasons pointed out well by others. And I am more than aware of the possible negative effects that AI can and will have on employment in Acting, Music, Photography, Graphic Design, etc. I have personally friends who are Musicians, Commercial Photographers, and Graphic Illustrators, etc. For me, I'm retired and Photography is a hobby. But I do feel a lot of UHH members are being disrespectful towards jlg1000.
Like the last time, virtually all the replies are ... (show quote)


You say: "But I do feel a lot of UHH members are being disrespectful towards jlg1000"

Some of us are simply pointing out that the topic should have been posted in another UHH section. That's not being disrespectful, just housekeeping.

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Dec 18, 2023 10:44:13   #
goofybruce
 
I worry for the future of photo-journalism with AI involved. It's not that the "lion charging" can be faked, but the propaganda, political and even outright "lying" over what a photo shows. It is now possible to have whomever doing whatever, wherever and whenever...
The sarcastic response "Don't believe your lying eyes" will be, unfortunately, too common.
Just watch the political race this coming year for a preview...
War crimes, compromising situations, "firsts" and "just being nasty" are all possible creations....

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Dec 18, 2023 11:02:19   #
JohnSwanda Loc: San Francisco
 
Papa Joe wrote:
Hmm, the way I view AI:
I still 'category' it in the photographic arena.
It's simply an 'outgrowth' from the photographic world. How possible would AI be, without the 'photos' it uses to create its product? Is it not still 'linked' to 'photos' (photography)?
Just my two-cents worth.
(Nice job, by the way).
God Bless,
Papa Joe


If you are taking about apps which use AI to process actual photographs, like PS generative fill, then it is a part of photography. But in the case of AI images generated entirely on a computer from text, it may use photos to learn to produce images, but it must also use non-photography images, as evidenced by all the fantasy/sci-fi AI images I see. But it doesn't fit the basic definition of photography, which is images created by the action of light on a light sensitive material. Painters and illustrators also use photography as a base of their images, but that doesn't make them photographs.

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Dec 18, 2023 12:49:35   #
bwana Loc: Bergen, Alberta, Canada
 
jlg1000 wrote:
In my previous post over AI generated, many - correctly - pointed out that there were many defects, especially with the hands, plastiky skin, etc.

Being myself involved in AI research, I continued improving on the matter and wanted to share a sample of my latest results. BTW I've got new hardware... this partly allows me to create more complex imaginery.

As before, Many will ahhh... point out, that it this is not the place for such a post and that it should be ostracized to some obscure sub-forum.

Still, I believe I belongs here - and of course NOT in the photo gallery - because my intentions are to inform this prestigious community on the state of the art on AI image creation and to stir discussion on how it might affect photography.

Full disclosure: ** No, they are not real and I did not use any photo of any kind **
In my previous post over AI generated, many - corr... (show quote)

The 'fake' is now real!

bwa

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Dec 18, 2023 12:57:28   #
jlg1000 Loc: Uruguay / South America
 
f8lee wrote:
While the impact of this tech on still images is one thing, I think the real impact in the creative community will be felt in the animated versions. This same AI tech can be used to make what are essentially photo-realistic moving images - a gorgeous young woman walking down a pier on a lake with the wind blowing her hair and dress - generated without any human standing in front of a camera, etc. In fact, apparently a couple of top earning "models" on the quasi-porn site "onlyfans" are just that - completely computer generated (and raking in tens of thousands of dollars a month for whoever programmed them). I have heard that for a year or two now many car commercials where we see that vehicle driving across the salt flats or around a mountain switchback or whatever are in fact AI - this time the computer generates that Mustang or Range Rover or whatever over a battery powered blank "sled" that has four wheels (with an adjustable wheelbase) - basically a white box on wheels, as an overlay to give us the impression it was an actual car making those maneuvers.

That is what a large part of the SAG-AFTRA actor strike was about - actors are (rightfully) scared they will be replaced. Which they will. The current argument had to do with producers wanting to pay an actor for a day to take photos that they could then use, royalty free, for any purpose in perpetuity. And it seems perhaps the actors got a bit of a reprieve for now. But there is little doubt that in a few years - 2? 5? certainly before 10 - non existent actors will be generated entirely using AI - no longer will producers need to pay Brad Pitt (or whoever) royalties for using their likeness - we can see above the nature of these images that required no humans on sound stages or in front of or behind cameras, etc.

So once Hollywood is essentially decimated (and imagine if A.I. is put to use to write scripts as well!) what I foresee is a major shift in the world of thespians. Actors who truly love the craft, who want to act in front of other people, will migrate to the stage - live theater might make a comeback as audiences start to get fed up with "fake" talent. Meanwhile, those who today are celebrities without talent (they slept with the right director, whatever) - who I personally think constitutes the majority of that celebrity actor group - they will fade away and perhaps have to learn to code or something.
While the impact of this tech on still images is o... (show quote)


Yes, AI will arrive sooner than later.

Watch at these experiments:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNRJegn7VYs&t=10s&ab_channel=MrComputeranimator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0efe4ynHmTE&ab_channel=MrComputeranimator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4L9arGhfmI&t=1s&ab_channel=Davidtamayo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q89WrVnjqM8&t=3s&ab_channel=reallybigname

I didn't do any of them, I've seen them on Discord and are a couple of days old.

What is amazing is the fact that the technique improves on a daly base. Anything older than a month is worthless.

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Dec 18, 2023 12:59:41   #
srt101fan
 
JohnSwanda wrote:
If you are taking about apps which use AI to process actual photographs, like PS generative fill, then it is a part of photography. But in the case of AI images generated entirely on a computer from text, it may use photos to learn to produce images, but it must also use non-photography images, as evidenced by all the fantasy/sci-fi AI images I see. But it doesn't fit the basic definition of photography, which is images created by the action of light on a light sensitive material. Painters and illustrators also use photography as a base of their images, but that doesn't make them photographs.
If you are taking about apps which use AI to proce... (show quote)



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Dec 18, 2023 13:07:10   #
MJPerini
 
AI is long out of the box we all use it every day from Alex & Siri to automated telephone prompts at the doctors office, and in all kinds of manufacturing. The 'Chat" part is just a new front end for a rapidly developing technology.
The OP's work is good photo illustration which has been with us since before photoshop , but haas been made both easier and more sophisticated by machine learning. It is a new tool that got its source material from the work of other people.
How we feel about it is irrelevant, it is here and developing.
Is this the right place to post it? probably not, but the author knows the viewership would be far smaller if posted under AI.
My personal interest is in Photographing real things in real time, with the end result of making a print that moves people. I'm aware that it is a fairly narrow interest, --no better or worse than Photo-illustration by whatever means, or any other particular interest.
We don't learn much by wasting energy keeping people with different views out, but neither do we have to answer or otherwise respond to every post.
So my attitude is welcome everyone with sincere interest, and respond to those that interest us.
I think AI strikes a nerve among some photographers (me among them) because it feels inauthentic when compared to Photography's signature ability to capture a real moment. We don't respond the same way to painting (I think) because there is a singular artist's vision and skill at it's core.

Having said all that, this is a a fairly traditional group of people.

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Dec 18, 2023 13:58:52   #
gouldopfl
 
In my last job before I retired 2019, I worked as a programmer writing AI code. For the industry that they are in, they have the best and by far the fastest system. It was very common that I could write a program that would read in data with a million rows in 30-45 seconds or less depending on how wide the data was. Joining one file to another could produce a 500 million rows and that whole job might take 30 min or less.
Is AI ready for what photographers need, no, but it is getting there. With new CPU chips in the camera with built in AI, I'm the next 2-3 years it might be possible to not need to edit RAW files. AI will be in every thing. Government should be able to cut jobs, especially those that are repetitive.

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Dec 18, 2023 14:15:14   #
tgreenhaw
 
Blenheim Orange wrote:
Yeah, that is the argument. "What's the difference between a human being and a machine?" It is a pretty disturbing line of thinking.


There is a tremendous difference. Ethics and morality, i.e. the difference in right and wrong is rooted in social behavior that evolved from our survival instinct. Machines do not have a survival instinct and don’t need one, they can be backed up and restored.

People have a tendency to see an AI program produce something a human normally would do and then project all kinds of human behavior onto the machine. Currently they are simply advanced tools in the hands of people.

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Dec 18, 2023 14:22:01   #
rcarol
 
jlg1000 wrote:
In my previous post over AI generated, many - correctly - pointed out that there were many defects, especially with the hands, plastiky skin, etc.

Being myself involved in AI research, I continued improving on the matter and wanted to share a sample of my latest results. BTW I've got new hardware... this partly allows me to create more complex imaginery.

As before, Many will ahhh... point out, that it this is not the place for such a post and that it should be ostracized to some obscure sub-forum.

Still, I believe I belongs here - and of course NOT in the photo gallery - because my intentions are to inform this prestigious community on the state of the art on AI image creation and to stir discussion on how it might affect photography.

Full disclosure: ** No, they are not real and I did not use any photo of any kind **
In my previous post over AI generated, many - corr... (show quote)


I showed these to my wife and she asked me, "What is this technology going to do to the modelling industry?" I didn't have an answer. Would you care to opine?

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Dec 18, 2023 16:04:02   #
nl
 
I am aware of the impact AI will have on artists that paint. Many are concerned that all those years of training to become a good artist will be tossed aside for AI art instead, especially because people can order up anything of any size and any color scheme they can dream up. I hoped photography would not be included in that concern, but your images are really fantastic. I'm sure there will always be people who want family portraits and event photographers, and some people will still appreciate artwork done by the artist instead of AI. Hopefully, there will be room for both. I agree that the ad world will seriously reduce the cost of ads. The caution would be that AI will create a random face, possibly put it on a product, and later a person looking just like them will step forward in a litigious manner. Depending upon what the product is, the cost could be very steep. You wouldn't want your face showing up on an ad for adult diapers.

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Dec 18, 2023 17:55:44   #
Drbobcameraguy Loc: Eaton Ohio
 
Boris77 wrote:
So someone else took some photos so that a machine could index them so that you could call them up and rearrange a few pixals to create a new image of no emotional value. Another step forward for society.
I am looking forward to the newly discovered pictures of MM.
Boris


Exactly. AI doesn't think at all. In fact if you ask it to give you for example a picture of a modern woman it gives a nice pic. Ask it again to give you a pic of a modern woman and it will give you another nice pic. But not the same pic. AI is just the largest encyclopedia ever made and the processor is the human per sa just reading the encyclopedia and giving you the first data or answer it finds.

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Dec 18, 2023 18:43:35   #
jlg1000 Loc: Uruguay / South America
 
Drbobcameraguy wrote:
Exactly. AI doesn't think at all. In fact if you ask it to give you for example a picture of a modern woman it gives a nice pic. Ask it again to give you a pic of a modern woman and it will give you another nice pic. But not the same pic. AI is just the largest encyclopedia ever made and the processor is the human per sa just reading the encyclopedia and giving you the first data or answer it finds.


Partially correct, but not quite:

1) AI is not an encyclopedia.

As you may have read in this thread, I work offline, so I have (own) all the data necessary to create the images... if it were an encyclopedia, it wouldn't fit my disk, would it?

On the contrary, typical data files (a.k.a safetensor files) are about 6GB in size and represent every imaginable latent image.

2) The notion that each time you invoque an AI, you get another image is plain wrong.

That notion comes from Midjourney, but I don't use that system. For instance I code (partially) myself.

You can get as consistent results as you want, or even govern the pose, lighting, background... just as in photography. What is more, modern (les than a couple of months) AI is *not* text to image, but a very complex tool that allows the artist to create whatever he or she wants.

Case in point: all these images are consistent and (I made them yesterday):













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