JD750 Loc: SoCal

Who is Vivian Maier?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PndV7QfWKTI&t=35s

This 10 min youtube documentary raises questions about the nature of art, the importance of public exposure, and the essence of being a photographer.

dpullum Loc: Tampa Florida

If in a forest and we speak profound words, the trees do not respond and our wisdom is fruitless and lost. Few have their Warhol "15 Minutes-of-Fame"** and few of those will be remembered 100 years from today.

** https://www.hungertv.com/editorial/were-all-going-to-have-our-15-seconds-of-fame/

R.G. Loc: Scotland

In the video there's an implication that she wasn't operating completely in a bubble. Her work shows that she was influenced by other people's work. I suspect that even complete geniuses don't go straight to a state of advanced capability, and to reach that level there has to be an element of learning and developing.

Even if someone did show advanced capabilities early on, I suspect that even they would benefit from some sort of learning and developing process. And of course most of us don't have that level of capability right from the start, so learning and developing are major aspects of our "journey" towards becoming better at what we do. In that context, feedback is a valuable resource for any learner. While constructive feedback may not be essential for some, it's a universal facilitator that everybody can benefit from.

Being able to learn from and be inspired by other people's quality output is another learning process facilitator. It's possible to develop in the absence of good examples and influences but it's almost certainly not optimum (for the majority of us).

Yes, we should all strive to develop a personal style based on our developing insights and capabilities. It's also true that our personal preferences will go through a gradual process of refinement. However, it's possible to achieve all of that while at the same time not isolating ourselves from factors like feedback and external influences. That would suggest that sharing our own work and familiarising ourselves with other people's efforts is overall a good thing.

Becoming overly dependent on validation from others would be a negative indicator pointing to a lack of independence. But if I ever found myself producing exceptional stuff I would want to share it with others and there's no shame in that. It would be egotistical only if it was done with the intention of showing off.

DirtFarmer Loc: Escaped from the NYC area, back to MA

Some of us shoot photos for ourselves. Sometimes it's just documentation. Sometimes it's just a memory jogger (my memory needs more jogging than it used to). Sometimes it's just a technical challenge. Sometimes we just don't care whether anyone sees what we're doing.

Speaking for myself here. Everyone is different (and some of us are more different).

RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri

Thank you for your thoughtful response. I thought the youtube video was an interesting one, and I have appreciated other presentations by this fellow. I wish Photographic Eye would have shown specific examples of her work and then identified the photographer whom he believed Vivian Maier was influenced by. But I also believe that if a photographer of Maier's capabilities makes enough images of subjects in a particular area, there will probably be some that would look like they could have been made by a known photographer. I also agree that all of us can benefit from practice and helpful advice. But I also think in virtually every area of artistic endeavor, there are those who have the eye, the touch or the gift whether it involves putting paint to canvas, words to a poem, constructing a chair, or making a photographic image that will show their innate abilities. I think Vivian Maier was such a person. I think that she was "compelled" to capture the world around her and did so in an innately creative manner. I am not sure how "peer review" would have improved her photography. Perhaps had she been more connected with other photographers, she would have been less lonely in her personal life. Maybe we would have seen her as a "participant" in her work rather than as an "observer". All this being said, I really like her body of work. We, all of us, have our preferences about what we like in all areas of our lives including what sort of photography we appreciate. One thing I appreciate about Vivian Maiers work beyond her ability as a photographer is that she viewed life with kindness and not judgment.

RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri

Thanks JD for sharing that video. I suppose we all have our own preferences with regards to the sort of photography we like, but I like the body of Vivian Maier's work. I also like Mike Disfarmer and Roger Minick.

R.G. Loc: Scotland

One of the general guiding factors that some of us use is to seek out whatever is eye-catching in whatever way. Part of that will be the things that catch our attention because of their oddness, unusualness, their eccentricity, incongruity etc, and there is no preparing for or anticipating those things. The only thing we can do is develop an eye for spotting such opportunities.

Progress in that direction wouldn't be dependent on receiving feedback or seeing other people's examples. That would also apply to developing a personal style along those lines. But IMO peer review, and feedback in general, become negatives only if we start chasing other people's ideas and preferences at the expense of pursuing our own. It would be a safe bet to assume that Vivian Maier was strong minded enough to not be swayed from her own preferences while at the same time taking note of what others were doing and extracting what she considered to be the good ideas.

Another factor is the unknown quantity of photos that didn't make it into the limelight. In the absence of any feedback or examples from others there could have been a larger number of inferior photos finding their way into the mix. It's more than possible that what we've seen of her work is the best of the best. In other words peer review makes us more selective.

RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri

Well put. It has been said, more than once, that one difference between a professional and regular photographer is that the professional ditches his/her images of a lesser level of quality. This has become even easier with digital imaging. With Vivian Maier and the large collection of negatives she left, the task of winnowing out the chaff will fall to the discernment of a good editor.
I also had a thought about emulating the style of other photographers. In practice this would very difficult to do. Oscar Wilde has a quote about this about life in general that I believe would apply to photograph. "Be yourself, everyone else is already taken" Thanks again.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

Well said.

JD750 Loc: SoCal

Good quote! I like it.

There is something to be said for the learning aspect of recreating another work. But this is not to share, but to learn.

R.G. Loc: Scotland

If we were to shun everybody's ideas except our own we would be limiting ourselves unnecessarily. I think the trick is to pick the stuff you like and leave the rest. That way you aren't copying the whole style, just the aspects of it that appeal to you. And that way your own style will still be based on your own preferences - which is the best way to do it.

The best way to grow and move forward is to keep an experimental frame of mind. Being open to external influences is part of that. Having strong personal preferences helps us to keep our style personal, and we can do that without becoming narrow-minded.

RodeoMan Loc: St Joseph, Missouri

Thanks. Actually I wasn't saying we should shun the work of others, but merely that it is difficult to emulate the work of someone else to the extent that others could possibly be confused. I think that sometimes a photographer is found to have a particular style because we know who they are. In other words if a cache of unidentified prints were discovered and then later we learn that they were by Henri Cartier-Bresson, I suspect that they would suddenly start looking like his work and people would be seeing "decisive moments" in them. I totally agree about learning from others. Back to Vivian Maier, another thing I appreciate about her is that she meets her subjects head on and not after they have moved past her. There she was, a Chicago nanny, very often with a couple children in tow standing flat-footed with a clunky twin lens reflex dead in front people capturing them in their daily lives without any sense of "I'm being photographed ". I much prefer that to what I seem to often see these days in street photography of someone lurking behind a lamp post and surrepticiously reaching out with their little Ricoh GR or whatever and capturing someone walking away from them. Thank you. I appreciate your thoughtful replies not only regarding this discussion but across the board in general.

R.G. Loc: Scotland

You're welcome, and thanks for the compliment. Developing our own style is one of the more interesting subjects in photography. If we aren't on a "journey" then how can we hope to get anywhere?