JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.

Oops! There goes that argument…

“A popular handgun has injured at least 80 people by firing without anyone pulling the trigger, victims allege
The SIG Sauer P320, used by thousands of police officers and civilians, has what critics call a potentially deadly flaw that causes unintentional discharges. Interviews with victims, video recordings and a review of thousands of pages of court documents revealed discharges that users alleged occurred when they were making routine movements, such as climbing out of vehicles or walking down stairs, an eight-month investigation by The Washington Post and The Trace has found.”

Frank T Loc: New York, NY

I read about the P320 and was shocked.
SIG Sauer should call for a recall of all those weapons and compensate the buyers for expenses.
But, they won't.

InfiniteISO Loc: The Carolinas, USA

This gun had a design problem that could cause a chambered round to fire if the slide was hit, smacked, pushed, etc. Independent testing determined the P320 was not "drop" safe, in fact many of the incidents suggested it did not take much force at all to accidentally discharge the gun.

The problem has been fixed. I might also add that this only affected users that were in the habit of keeping a round chambered in their gun at all times. This is why many of the victims of the accidental discharge were members of law enforcement.

The Aardvark Is Ready

Nice try, but the guns still did not shoot by themselves. It took some kind of action for them to discharge. Faulty design does not invalidate the argument. Excluding some modern autos, cars do not drive themselves. But a faulty emergency brake might allow a car to roll downhill.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

You beat me too it, stupidity comes in all forms, but mostly Lefties.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

You really didn't think this out carefully now did you?

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

You would have to explain to John what, thinking this out carefully, actually means. As a lying corrupt Left Winger he most likely has no idea.

For those of us with common sense we look at firearms as basically inanimate objects that do not go off on their own, meaning if we set it on a table and come back 100 years from now the gun would still be right there and would not have gone off, fired, that is. But John tries in vain to prove a point nobody ever claimed, that a gun would not fire even if it was moved or in some manner was affected by human interaction as in the case of the Sig handgun in question.

Dennis

Triple G

That's exactly the argument that was used to counter Baldwin's claim that he didn't pull the trigger.

https://www.newsweek.com/armorer-refutes-alec-baldwin-claim-never-pulled-gun-trigger-abc-1655465

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

Did Baldwin not have possession of the firearm in his hand? Firearms don’t go off on its own, without human intervention of some kind whether intentional or accidental. I don’t like Alex Baldwin, I despise him, but I kind of support him on this issue. I don’t think he did it on purpose at all. I think it was just an unfortunate accident.

Triple G

Go back and read the arguments against Baldwin's claim. I think his claim is bogus and he should not be immune from prosecution. I just wanted to remind all those of what they said back then.

Racmanaz Loc: Sunny Tucson!

I heard his arguments about not pulling the trigger and I think it is bogus yes. I think he made a major error making that claim and it was just stupid. But I still don’t think he did it on purpose. It wasn’t intentional.

JohnFrim Loc: Somewhere in the Great White North.

Long shot here, Dennis, and very unlikely to happen...

But imagine this handgun being on the table or countertop while your child is playing on the floor nearby, your cat wanders by and knocks it on the floor, and it goes off k*****g your child. Where was the human interaction... other than the stupidity/negligence of the gun owner in the first place?

The point of the post was to show that gun injuries or deaths are not ONLY the result of someone intentionally pulling the trigger with the intent of causing harm. In fact, children playing with loaded firearms quite likely DO NOT have MURDER on their mind when "accidentally" pulling the trigger and k*****g themselves or another child.

Less easy access to firearms in general means fewer accidents in general; and better control over those favourite mass-murder-auto/semiauto-multiround-weapons would mean fewer mass k*****gs.

A standard military/business mantra is don't go to your superior with a complaint about something without having a proposed solution in mind. But the majority of 2A zealots ONLY have a negative attitude toward ANY suggestions for mitigating the gun problem in America, and they have ZERO suggestions for positive steps.

And then there is the argument that "they are out to take away ALL your guns and ALL YOUR FREEDOMS." I guess when you misbehaved as a child and your parents took a toy away you came back with, "Oh, so now you are going to take away ALL my toys, and you are not going to let me do ANYTHING!"

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Of COURSE Baldwin claims he did not pull the trigger. What else do you expect him to say. To the best of my knowledge he should be and has been held to answer criminal charges for the death of his coworker and wounding of another. He also is liable for maybe millions in law suits against him. Of course he would claim he did not pull the trigger. But the only way that gun can fire is IF the hammer is pulled back and the trigger pulled OR if the hammer is down and the hammer is struck with a hard object. SOMEONE pulled the trigger and it was in Baldwin's hand. You figure it out. It ain't that tough for most of us.

The other thing to keep in mind is the past history of firearm misuse in the entire making of that movie. Many people left at least temporarily due to the UNSAFE firearms handling practices of the crew and the woman in charge of firearms handling on the set. It was her job to make sure the gun was unloaded of any live ammunition on the set. She did not. It was also Baldwin's job when handling any firearm to make sure it was not loaded with live ammunition. That is something a complete beginner in firearms usage learns before handling any firearm, Check to be sure it is UNLOADED.

The firearm in question is a Colt Single Action Army that can only fire when the hammer is pulled to the rear and the trigger pulled. The gun did not go off by itself. It would necessarily need a human to pull the trigger. So please do not attempt to tell us the gun went off all by itself. The gun was checked afterward and was not found to be faulty.

Dennis

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

I ALSO do not think Baldwin did this on purpose but I do think he is guilty of manslaughter. He failed in his responsibility to never point a firearm at anything he did not want to destroy, he failed to check the firearm to make positively sure it was not loaded with live ammunition. Hell, just looking down into the front of the cylinder would have shown him a live cartridge was present. Also the history of firearm misuse on the set was enough that some of the crew walked off the set. Baldwin was in charge and should have fired the person in charge of firearms on the set. A live cartridge should never have been within a mile of that set.

I don't like Baldwin either but my likes and dislikes are irrelevant. The facts in the case are what matter.

Dennis

dennis2146 Loc: Eastern Idaho

Holy S**T John!!!!! OK you are correct. I and everybody else in the world should apologize to you and other Left
Wing i***ts who would bring up such a sorry ass excuse as you just did. Apparently you are so ________, insert your own word meaning stupid, dumb, moronic and so on that you are unable to come up with the REAL common sense meaning of human or ANYTHING ELSE causing the firearm to fall to the floor and discharge possibly k*****g soneone. But the point you probably have no idea about is that many modern firearms have a built in safety device causing them to not fire even when stuck by a hammer from behind, even when dropped. Generally if the manual safety is ON the gun will not fire because the safety prevents the hammer from striking the firing pin. This is not on all handguns but on a great many these days.

Of course children playing with guns can be shot. But then again, children left to play by themselves while mommy goes into another room to check on the laundry or wash dishes have come back to find the baby attacked and k**led by the family dog, children have fallen into a swimming pool and drowned while the parents ran in the house for just a few seconds to answer the phone or get the door bell. Parents leave an infant in a vehicle for just a couple of minutes while they run into a store for a loaf of bread and the child is k**led by the intense heat. Most likely any of us might come up with 100 different scenarios to point out such things happening. They happen all the time. Yet you are trying to make those things that happen quite commonly a firearm problem. We are talking about mass murders here and not accidents of 100 different types.

You point out the k*****gs by semi auto high capacity magazine rifles and yet completely FAIL to point out that regarding those specific rifles you address, KNIVES are used to k**l far more people than those rifles. That my BFF is a common error from you on the Left. Far be it from you to actually cite facts, huh? The t***h is only about 3% of those k**led in crimes are from those specific rifles you point out, ONLY 3%. Yet you on the lying corrupt Left forget or ignore that tiny little number and continue doing your best to make it seem that those look alike assault type rifles contribute to a large number of people murdered. DAMN!!! IF only you knew what the hell you are talking about. But sadly you only go along with your emotional ignorant viewpoints.

Dennis